USST, "Project 26" Plans for the Future. New USST Criteria.

[ScotsSkier]

I'm voting for muleski to replace tiger..and the sooner the better!

 

[Muleski]

And that has what to do with ski racing? I don’t get it.

I've only heard ski coaches mention it when being quite irritated by "bulldozer parents", and wishing that the parents would just let the coaches do their jobs......hence the agreement that a ski group of well supported orphans might be "ideal," as it would eliminate the parents! And the ski coaches that have mentioned it to me sound like they are tongue in cheek!

So.....I'd say, not much.

 

[Muleski]

I'm voting for muleski to replace tiger..and the sooner the better!

ScotsSkier doesn't really that while he's at FIS Masters, I've already got HIS hat in the ring. Serious real world turnaround hired gun. Bring it on!

Now if we truly knew who was in charge.............

 

[Muleski]

For those who do not know Dan Leever's background as a businessman, CEO and in skiing, just fire up the Goggle machine.
He had a tremendous career as the CEO of McDermid, which I believe he grew at roughly 20-25% on a compounded basis over something like 20 plus years. He has put his heart, brain, soul, and ample wallet into ski racing for a number of years. Nobody has been more generous, or tried to do things differently. And of course, until, he resigned at the end of 2017, he was a string voice on the USST board.

At the time that the USSA/USST was looking for Marolt's replacement, word is that Dan throw his hat in the ring to be considered, and agreed to do so for $1 a year. The story that I have heard is that they felt that it was really important to have somebody with direct hands-on USST experience, as an athlete, coach, etc. Had to be "one of us", as if there was some mystery to this thing. I joke that a maybe it was the secret handshake, or KoolAid recipe.

I think that some of Dan's frustration had to be the he feels strongly that he could be doing a better job, and would not have let things slide as they have.

It's very interesting to read the comments on his Facebook post[s}. Some folks have a real agenda. USSA employees, etc. There are USST athletes who are thanking hi, and the spouse of one {who's been in the system for maybe 17 years?} and has been an employee herself I believe, who's critical. The comments are interesting. Some really knowledgeable people, well known names, and some who may not have much experience. Some bitter parents who sort of don't get it.

Very interesting. Check it out.
I'm waiting for the comments to explode with this news about the changes in the coaching staff.

 

[markojp]

Interesting.... I wonder what the 'administrative' cost per named team athlete runs?

 

[Ohioskier]

I've only heard ski coaches mention it when being quite irritated by "bulldozer parents", and wishing that the parents would just let the coaches do their jobs......hence the agreement that a ski group of well supported orphans might be "ideal," as it would eliminate the parents! And the ski coaches that have mentioned it to me sound like they are tongue in cheek!

So.....I'd say, not much.

I posted this as it seems to me to fit for kids in any sport. Parents let kids get coached by coaches. Coaches don’t make a 7 year old commit full time in order to coach them in a particular sport. Let kids play multiple sports etc.

I’m learning Ski racing is a bit different and specializing early is what is expected though so I guess it doesn’t apply.

 

[James]

To have a chance in this sport, you now need to be on snow an awful lot. I would say at least 100 days a year at about 10. I anticipate plenty of people thinking "that's crazy." Not saying it isn't. Mikaela might have been closer to 150 or more at that age.........

When you say 100 days are you talking full days or 2-3 hrs/day? I guess the question is substituting more hours/day and less days. Like 50 full days.
But the calendar is important. Having zero time on snow April to November vs at least a week in there is a big difference for the next season.

 

[Muleski]

I posted this as it seems to me to fit for kids in any sport. Parents let kids get coached by coaches. Coaches don’t make a 7 year old commit full time in order to coach them in a particular sport. Let kids play multiple sports etc.

I’m learning Ski racing is a bit different and specializing early is what is expected though so I guess it doesn’t apply.

I think your perception of things is a bit off base. Can you name one seven year old who is skiing "full time" year round in this country, and who has given up other sports to do so. i.e. "specializing" exclusively in the sport?

Doubt if there are any. There are some who are maybe 2-3 years older who are getting tremendous private coaching, and BTW, essentially doing almost gate training. Developing a very sound fundamental base. With a lot of time on snow.

Parents hate to hear this, but mileage matters most. And you can't make it up, fake it, or catch up. Not suggesting that as a nation we are wonders at coaching, at athlete development, etc. BUT, that's a constant, and it's not going to change. Directed free skiing, and a lot of volume.

IMO, and in the opinion of every top level youth coach that I know in the sport, a lot of sports and a lot of activity is very important for countless reasons. One? What if the kid doesn't love skiing? It happens.

Our best U19 made the decision to give up ski racing to become a pro road cyclist this past summer. Was always encouraged to ride, and pursue other sports.......Great kid, and good decision. It's where his heart is.

 

[Ohioskier]

@Muleski the 7 year old comment was reflecting other sports and was meant as a general comment for athletics. Football, baseball, soccer anything really. I have a friend who’s daughter was told that she should quit everything play softball 150 games per year and practice year round. I guess it worked she got a full ride to a D 1 school unfortunately her body gave out after only a two seasons. Multiple knee surgeries.

I agree completely mileage is important and goals need to be set that fit the best interest of the kid and the kids families. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to go for it and train year round.

It seems like the coaches you know that encourages lots of sports are on right path and already agree in principle with the book I posted. That’s a great thing for skiing and the kids that are involved with the programs they coach.

The only thing I hope for is the promotion of skiing and ski racing in this country. It truly is a great sport whether recreational or competing at any level from nastar to World Cup. I also hope that we can find a way to keep the best involved into their peak years. I know some choose other interest etc. which is great. I just want the US ski team to figure out how to have more depth at elite levels.

Hopefully this clarifies things a bit.

 

[Muleski]

When you say 100 days are you talking full days or 2-3 hrs/day? I guess the question is substituting more hours/day and less days. Like 50 full days.
But the calendar is important. Having zero time on snow April to November vs at least a week in there is a big difference for the next season.

Depending on the age, maybe two hours a day. Then ramping it up. I'm reasonably familiar with what some of the top U14 and U16's in the country are doing......and others can weigh in....but at the "full time academy" level it's often 2-3 hours in the morning {at most} Tues-Thurs. Often Friday afternoon. Weekends might be race days, or one day on to free ski, and maybe train. Maybe one day off to rest. Mondays at the academy level are almost always "academic days"....all day. Maybe some dryland. No on snow.

So when I throw out 100 days.....I mean SOME meaningful time each of those days. Not all day. Not even the big guys at the WC level ski more than a few hours a day. I remember meeting a guy about 15 years ago who was a former USST skier, World Juniors team member for a couple of years, and at the time an NCAA skier. In the season, he'd show up to train and would somedays take 2-3 runs, some days 4-6. Never more. And he would only train on a course that was nearby identical to what he'd race. He was always starting near the front, so he never had to deal with a ratty, rutty SL course. So he wouldn't train one. In NCAA GS, where the guys follow the girls, he would always train a skied out course, skied by the girls. But only a few runs. When it was not productive, he'd stop.

50 full days does not equal 100 3 hour days, unless the kids are really young and what you're doing is building mileage....then it sure helps.

Yeah, I know that this stuff pisses parents off, but the sport takes a lot effort, time, and expense. And building training volume in the off season, like spring, summer and fall makes a big difference. And, BTW, that should not be going to some commercial camp at Hood. Or going to think that "Ted Ligety and Andrew Weibrecht are going to coach my kid." Last I knew they were not coaches........

To be blunt, if you have a 14 year old who skis weekends only, he/she is never going to catch up with the kids at the academies who ski throughout the winter, take two extended fall trips in October and November, and likely ski a few weeks in the summer, or more. You just can't make it up. That infuriates many people. I'm not saying I LIKE it. Just the way it works.

 

[James O]

For those who do not know Dan Leever's background as a businessman, CEO and in skiing, just fire up the Goggle machine.
He had a tremendous career as the CEO of McDermid, which I believe he grew at roughly 20-25% on a compounded basis over something like 20 plus years. He has put his heart, brain, soul, and ample wallet into ski racing for a number of years. Nobody has been more generous, or tried to do things differently. And of course, until, he resigned at the end of 2017, he was a string voice on the USST board.

At the time that the USSA/USST was looking for Marolt's replacement, word is that Dan throw his hat in the ring to be considered, and agreed to do so for $1 a year. The story that I have heard is that they felt that it was really important to have somebody with direct hands-on USST experience, as an athlete, coach, etc. Had to be "one of us", as if there was some mystery to this thing. I joke that a maybe it was the secret handshake, or KoolAid recipe.

I think that some of Dan's frustration had to be the he feels strongly that he could be doing a better job, and would not have let things slide as they have.

It's very interesting to read the comments on his Facebook post[s}. Some folks have a real agenda. USSA employees, etc. There are USST athletes who are thanking hi, and the spouse of one {who's been in the system for maybe 17 years?} and has been an employee herself I believe, who's critical. The comments are interesting. Some really knowledgeable people, well known names, and some who may not have much experience. Some bitter parents who sort of don't get it.

Very interesting. Check it out.
I'm waiting for the comments to explode with this news about the changes in the coaching staff.

Has a Men's Head Coach been named? If not, anyone have any guesses as to who's in the running?

 

[Muleski]

Has a Men's Head Coach been named? If not, anyone have any guesses as to who's in the running?

I think the first step was "removing" Sasha, and that just happened. This announcement was more about his leaving the old job than the "new one. We'll see....a lot of people on eggshells within the team I hear. This is just the first step, I hear.

Could be somebody from inside, could be somebody from outside, could be a non-American. But this is not like the NFL where 98% of the head college coaches would want to coach in the NFL. Imagine there was one NFL team. The head coach of the USST is a step down for a large number of coaches. In pay, in the the actual duties, the travel......the works. Not sure if the current masthead of the USST/USSA really understands that. This most recent move shows a few people that it is the case.

The head development coach. If you asked the people coaching the kids who are going into that pipeline, as well as the athletes, who or "what type of coach" they'd want, I doubt if it would be a match. This could be a lead balloon.

I would imagine that a lot of conversations will take place this week at US Nationals in Sun Valley. I assume they will want that HC job filled fairly soon, as that person may be making a large number of changes underneath him.

 

[James O]

I think the first step was "removing" Sasha, and that just happened. This announcement was more about his leaving the old job than the "new one. We'll see....a lot of people on eggshells within the team I hear. This is just the first step, I hear.

Could be somebody from inside, could be somebody from outside, could be a non-American. But this is not like the NFL where 98% of the head college coaches would want to coach in the NFL. Imagine there was one NFL team. The head coach of the USST is a step down for a large number of coaches. In pay, in the the actual duties, the travel......the works. Not sure if the current masthead of the USST/USSA really understands that. This most recent move shows a few people that it is the case.

The head development coach. If you asked the people coaching the kids who are going into that pipeline, as well as the athletes, who or "what type of coach" they'd want, I doubt if it would be a match. This could be a lead balloon.

I would imagine that a lot of conversations will take place this week at US Nationals in Sun Valley. I assume they will want that HC job filled fairly soon, as that person may be making a large number of changes underneath him.

As always, thanks for the great insight Muleski...

 

[James]

I think besides time one of the things that has to be present by 12? Maybe earlier, is an interest in the basics of moving on snow. Line, turn forces, acceleration, terrain and use of it, etc. From an experiential sense if not also intellectual. A lot of kids, get too into looking the part of a ski racer and everything that goes with it. They get too enamored of making turns a certain way. Gobs of counter, tons of inclination. It's a dead end. Motivating to get out of that can be tough esp of they have success in a weak field.

 

[Karen_skier2.0]

Q&A with Tiger Shaw

https://blog.liftopia.com/qa-tiger-shaw-ski-snowboard-team-ceo-president/

These parts are relevant to the current discussion and Tiger's perspective on it.

What’s your primary responsibility?

Results and money.

Which is more difficult?

I can directly influence the money, whereas our coaches directly influence the results. However, through our strategy, we can dramatically influence our long-term results—in other words, developing young kids.

It’s a long-term necessity to have a great developmental pipeline, so we’re highly focused on that, as well as developing us as an association and connecting with all who want to be a part of it.

For instance, take the kid that grew up playing football. He or she is a lifelong NFL fan, and we want to connect with our fans. We want to incorporate them, we want to include them, we want to grow their numbers for the sake of the strength of the sport. Pro sports do a very good job of that, and we need to do better.

What happens to the ski racers that try but don’t quite make it?

There’s a tremendous amount of programs that they remain involved in around the country. And there are many different circuits that you can race on.

Most people, after they’ve decided that they’ve gotten as far as they can, they either parlay those skills in another career inside of outside of the ski industry. We hope they stay in coaching because it’s critical to have great coaching in our clubs.

And do many of them continue to coach?

Yes, sometimes they are a full-time parent volunteer coach, many of the programs depend heavily on ex-racer parents, but it’s very efficient that way.

It’s tough to raise a ski racer, what advice would you have?

There are many great clubs that help to reduce the cost, try to keep the travel down, do more with what you have at home.

You’ve watched plenty of young kids transform into successful career ski racers. What are the ingredients?

The 10,000 hour rule applies.

Explain the 10,000 hour rule.

Ah, ski as much as you can. And all skiing counts, wood, moguls, all mountain, gates.

 

[Muleski]

I think besides time one of the things that has to be present by 12? Maybe earlier, is an interest in the basics of moving on snow. Line, turn forces, acceleration, terrain and use of it, etc. From an experiential sense if not also intellectual. A lot of kids, get too into looking the part of a ski racer and everything that goes with it. They get too enamored of making turns a certain way. Gobs of counter, tons of inclination. It's a dead end. Motivating to get out of that can be tough esp of they have success in a weak field.

Not my experience in the best programs. There is no "weak field", and there IS very good coaching. I'm talking about those programs with full time U12 skiers. The emphasis is on skiing and getting the fundamentals down.

Here's a vignette. I remember connecting with a young guy who I consider to be a very good youth coach. Full time year round. He was coaching a group of first year U14's. These kids are now FIS skiers, and one is the top rated GS skier in the country, another the top SL skier. They have many peers from that group in the top ten. He had them freeskiing, freeskiing, doing specific movements, etc. Working in fore-aft balance, and details. They all had great separation, and looked solid. "SO......what are you doing with these girls?" Response: "Trying to get them to make four good turns in a row. Our goal is to have them able to ski one decent clean run by the time they wind up their U16 years....four year from now. Two at that point will be a miracle. We don't talk about results as they do NOT matter until the FIS years. If they race in big races and do well......fine. But that's NOT the focus."

That's the kind of coach you want, the kind of program that frankly will produce the best skiers, not just racers. Some of these kids are now racing skier cross, some are big mountain skiers, etc. But they are all really fundamentally sound.

Yes, there are a lot of weekend programs that don't look a thing like that, and others that sort of do. The weekend programs that primarily are "running gates" 85% of the at that age, and younger, I would run from. Amazing how much more kids free ski in the West than in the East, BTW. It really shows years later when whatever racing is long finished. At my home hill, WAY to much gate training and "racing". Way too many little kids trying to qualify for post season events. I watched a bunch two weekends ago and thought back to that conversation about getting them to ski really well before they entered their FIS years.

Then again if your goal is to rule your HS team in CT, where the top skier has 275 points.....just have fun. Lots of ways to have fun "ski racing" and its hard to discuss how to develop kids to excel at times.

Not every kid wants to do it. Not every family can do it. It's a cruel sport. It can be great. It can be hard.

 

[Muleski]

Q&A with Tiger Shaw

https://blog.liftopia.com/qa-tiger-shaw-ski-snowboard-team-ceo-president/

These parts are relevant to the current discussion and Tiger's perspective on it.

What’s your primary responsibility?

Results and money.

Which is more difficult?

I can directly influence the money, whereas our coaches directly influence the results. However, through our strategy, we can dramatically influence our long-term results—in other words, developing young kids.

It’s a long-term necessity to have a great developmental pipeline, so we’re highly focused on that, as well as developing us as an association and connecting with all who want to be a part of it.

For instance, take the kid that grew up playing football. He or she is a lifelong NFL fan, and we want to connect with our fans. We want to incorporate them, we want to include them, we want to grow their numbers for the sake of the strength of the sport. Pro sports do a very good job of that, and we need to do better.

What happens to the ski racers that try but don’t quite make it?

There’s a tremendous amount of programs that they remain involved in around the country. And there are many different circuits that you can race on.

Most people, after they’ve decided that they’ve gotten as far as they can, they either parlay those skills in another career inside of outside of the ski industry. We hope they stay in coaching because it’s critical to have great coaching in our clubs.

And do many of them continue to coach?

Yes, sometimes they are a full-time parent volunteer coach, many of the programs depend heavily on ex-racer parents, but it’s very efficient that way.

It’s tough to raise a ski racer, what advice would you have?

There are many great clubs that help to reduce the cost, try to keep the travel down, do more with what you have at home.

You’ve watched plenty of young kids transform into successful career ski racers. What are the ingredients?

The 10,000 hour rule applies.

Explain the 10,000 hour rule.

Ah, ski as much as you can. And all skiing counts, wood, moguls, all mountain, gates.

BTW, this was THREE years ago. Which I know, seems like a LONG time ago to CEO Shaw.

He's talked a lot about "at home" since he took the job. Less so now than originally the case. Sleeping indoor own bed works as a kid, as long as your bed is in a mountain town with a very strong program. That's his "issue". He struggles with admitting that while pumping up a bigger grass roots small club base. He needs to get it right. IMO, the answer is to emphasize that there are SO MANY ways to love ski racing. The garbled message has been a bit unfair....you are NOT going to reach the top of the tiny pyramid without a lot of effort, sacrifice. coaching at a VERY high level, peers, and the right environment.

Stay in coaching? Tiger....bang the drum that clubs MUST increase full time coach pay. And start......by paying your own coaches the most, so you can attract the best.

Stepping downward, and backward to coach on the USST just seems wrong. Almost as bad as paying your own way as an athlete.....

 

[Bolder]

Q&A with Tiger Shaw

https://blog.liftopia.com/qa-tiger-shaw-ski-snowboard-team-ceo-president/


You’ve watched plenty of young kids transform into successful career ski racers. What are the ingredients?

The 10,000 hour rule applies.

Explain the 10,000 hour rule.

Ah, ski as much as you can. And all skiing counts, wood, moguls, all mountain, gates.

I wondered when Malcolm Gladwell would appear in this discussion!

 

[BGreen]

I wondered when Malcolm Gladwell would appear in this discussion!

You can’t fake mileage, but the 10,000 hour bs needs to die. I did the math, if you have insane endurance, you would be 53 before you reached 10,000 hours. Yes I did the math.

 

[Muleski]

You can’t fake mileage, but the 10,000 hour bs needs to die. I did the math, if you have insane endurance, you would be 53 before you reached 10,000 hours. Yes I did the math.

Agree, 110%!
Just needs to go away.