Tuck position/silly human trick

Discussion in 'General Skiing' started by Pequenita, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

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    Putting my head down was exactly what resulted in my injury in 1977. I apparently didn't see the slight variation in terrain and my skis split and I landed on my head.
     
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  2. hbear

    hbear Out on the slopes Skier

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    Take it for what you will. If you can’t see it you can’t see it. I can tell you it’s there and that is the objective....and provided the rationale.

    If you are able to, try it out. Hips down and back vs higher and forward. It’s much different as it pertains to shin pressure, control and aero.

    On that note, higher and longer femur pertains to regular skiing as well. Back to the ankle usage and hip position again..
     
  3. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    IMG_5827.PNG
    Are you saying this position?

     
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  4. pchewn

    pchewn Out on the slopes Skier

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    I imagine the "optimal" tuck is a compromise for aerodynamic drag reduction, stability of body vs wind forces, and stability/speed of the skis on the snow. It can't be all about the aerodynamics.
     
  5. hbear

    hbear Out on the slopes Skier

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    Not exactly, that's a high tuck (which has value on course given the ability to turn better from that position).
    Position I'm speaking about has the hips being somewhat lower (but still over binding/boot) and shoulders at the same height/slightly lower than the hip.

    Not sure if it's been mentioned, but there isn't just one tuck position that works best in all scenerios either. High tuck vs. standard vs. compact all have their place at different times and for different terrain. The key for a skier is ensuring adequate shin pressure and maintaining the use of the ankle flexion to faciliate turning and pressure on the front of the ski so it doesn't wobble away on you.

    One can try in their boots, put them on, get some shin pressure and shoot the hips down and back (shin pressure pretty much vanishes). Now do the same but try and keep the hips forward as you go into tuck and you should notice a difference in the shin pressure and ankle mobility. Add some skis to the mix and you can get your hips (to get CM) further forward, much further forward before you feel like you are falling over; remembering skiing is done on a slope and not a perfectly flat horizontal surface.
     
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  6. skix

    skix Getting on the lift Skier

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    Nyman in a low tuck from the vid posted above.

    NymanTuck.jpg
     
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  7. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

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    I don't think a low tuck is possible with your derriere actually over the boot heels using a reference of 'over the heels' as a straight line perpendicular to the surface/ski you are standing on.

    Optimal is completely context dependent. The expression, 'don't sacrifice the turn for the tuck', comes to mind. Sometimes you don't want to be the lowest you can be because you want to have better control of the ski/snow engagement. Other times aerodynamics is what is is all about, like the Brückenschuss & Gschöss in the Hahnenkamm. You know, those flats that they rarely show in their entirety that tax a racer's ability to ride a flat ski and their ski tech's ability to get the wax right.
     
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  8. trailtrimmer

    trailtrimmer Stuck in the Flatlands Skier

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    Getting away from the technical stuff, a tuck like that should be doable for at least 30 seconds without a huge amount of trouble. I'm guessing you have shoulder strength/flexibility issues.

    What other sports or hobbies do you take part in? It's possible there is ramifications from it or from simply not doing enough upper body movements.


    And I wonder if my beer league would get upset if I showed up with spoilers or a suit like that. :roflmao:
     
  9. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    Reading the articles, the US went to custom tailored speed suits instead of fixed sizes.

    It's hard to get actual numbers for alpine tuck comparisons. There's also a lifting force involved.
    This crosscountry study put some numbers to it. 14 m/s is about 31mph.

    Tuck a has a higher drag coeffiecient than b,c, or d ! but less area. It's still more drag force than b,c. Tuck b even had a higher drag coeff than d!
    Tuck b barely wins here.

    IMG_5830.jpg
    IMG_5831.jpg

    https://res.mdpi.com/proceedings/pr...edings-02-00313-v2.pdf?filename=&attachment=1
     
  10. Doby Man

    Doby Man Out on the slopes Skier

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    While all that may be true James, the paint gun targeting was perfect every time which was probably, obviously, the main key to this exercise.
     
  11. Thread Starter
    TS
    Pequenita

    Pequenita Out on the slopes Skier

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    I taught yoga for 5 years and have had an advanced practice for 15 years. I’m pretty inflexible in the upper back and shoulders. On the plus side, I don’t have a slouch!

    ETA - in the yoga population, we don't spend a ton of time getting into more spinal flexion, but over the years I've noticed that a lot of practitioners can easily get into (mostly) inverted positions that flex the upper back a lot (google "supported shoulder stand" or "plow pose"). I'd always thought it was more a core issue than flexibility issue, but now I'm starting to wonder.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  12. geepers

    geepers Getting off the lift Skier

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    Good find.

    Think I'll just stay basically upright.
     

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