Tipping the foot inside the boot first - why?

[Chris V.]

^^ The slomo in that clip is superb.

 

[LiquidFeet]

This could go in the tip lead thread as well.

Very interesting pole drill. I haven't seen that one before. Looks like it encourages inside half lead very effectively.

 

[James]

There's no knee angulation, is just the angle the pictures are taken. Knees do not bend sideways.
A shame that this myth of will around.

The statement is circular logic. You say knee angulation is the knee bending sideways, and since knees don’t bend sideways, knee angulation doesn’t exist.

Simple:

Barnes, Encyclopedia of Skiing

Measurement of knee angulation, Reid Thesis 2010

 

[Rod9301]

Of course knee angulation doesn't exist. Optically it looks like there is, but it's because of femur internal rotation combined with the bending of the knee

 

[James]

Of course knee angulation doesn't exist. Optically it looks like there is, but it's because of femur internal rotation combined with the bending of the knee

The answers have been given.
You insist on holding on to the fallacy of your definition.
Not sure where you got bending the knee sideways = knee angulation. That has nothing to do with knee angulation.

Nothing wrong with the bold part.

 

[Chris V.]

"because of femur internal rotation combined with the bending of the knee"

Coupled with abduction of the forefoot, using the subtalar joint (outside foot), or adduction (inside foot).

Add dorsiflexion, and it turns out a bit of fib-tib rotation results, too:

 

[Rod9301]

The answers have been given.
You insist on holding on to the fallacy of your definition.
Not sure where you got bending the knee sideways = knee angulation. That has nothing to do with knee angulation.

Nothing wrong with the bold part.

It's becausei object to the term knee angulation

 

[Chris V.]

It's becausei object to the term knee angulation

LOL, it seems half the debates among skiing pundits are over semantics. Give us a better term. I can't think of any others I've heard.

 

[Scruffy]

It's becausei object to the term knee angulation

There's no knee angulation, is just the angle the pictures are taken. Knees do not bend sideways.
A shame that this myth of will around.

Maybe internet tibia rotation coupled with knee bending

Well object all you want, the term Knee angulation is not going away. It's an existing medically defined term. It's not defined as bending the knee sideways. Knee angulation, medically speaking, is the measurable angle varus or valgus of the alignment of the tib-fib. Normal knee angulation is approx 3-6 degrees valgus. Abnormal hip adduction ( inward rotation ) can cause abnormal excessive knee valgus maladies. So the skiing communities use of the term knee angulation due to hip rotation and knee flexion is not out of line with established definitions of the term.

 

[Seldomski]

It's becausei object to the term knee angulation

Knee wag?

 

[LiquidFeet]

It's becausei object to the term knee angulation

All the turns in the videos below rely on Knee Angulation. It's femur rotation with knee bend. It's called "Knee Angulation" because that phrase is shorter than "femur rotation with knee bend."

Unfortunately people not familiar with the term think it means the knees bend sideways. Some people get offended that its meaning needs to be explained.

"Knee Wag" is more descriptive of the movement of knee angulation. I like that term. It has fewer syllables than knee angulation.

The first segment in Reilly's video below shows the Knee Wag with little lateral travel.

Reilly McGlashan - variations of short carved turns

Here's a mogul skiing demo showing another version of Knee Wag/Knee Angulation.

Mogul turn practice on the flats - skidded turns

In this one, Chuck Martin makes the left-right "wagging" of the knee more visible.

Chuck Martin - mogul turns

Below is where the Knee Wag/Knee Angulation shows up most clearly: pivot slips. To get this much wag, one must rotate the hips a little bit at the end of each left-right segment. This drill is done by holding the skis close to flat on the snow surface while rotating the femurs. The skis skid/slip downhill along the fall line. The drill exaggerates the left-right knee movement.

Pivot Slips drill

And... the opposite of Pivot Slips is RRtrx. Same Knee Angulation/Knee Wag, but these are carved turns with no skidding allowed. The skis are edged, not held flat. The movement starts with feet tipping inside the boots, not with femur rotation. The edged skis rotate the femurs, not the other way around.

RRtrx

 

[Rod9301]

Well object all you want, the term Knee angulation is not going away. It's an existing medically defined term. It's not defined as bending the knee sideways. Knee angulation, medically speaking, is the measurable angle varus or valgus of the alignment of the tib-fib. Normal knee angulation is approx 3-6 degrees valgus. Abnormal hip adduction ( inward rotation ) can cause abnormal excessive knee valgus maladies. So the skiing communities use of the term knee angulation due to hip rotation and knee flexion is not out of line with established definitions of the term.

When people talk about knee angulation, they don't talk about 6 degrees. If you look at pictures, it's a lot more, and it had nothing to do with what you're describing

 

[Sanity]

There is no ankle angulation that results in anything significance other than a means for knee angulation

 

[LiquidFeet]

This one's a classic. Sean Warman.

 

[James]

When people talk about knee angulation, they don't talk about 6 degrees. If you look at pictures, it's a lot more, and it had nothing to do with what you're describing

That’s why I posted the Reid measurement. It looks like a lot more, but technically, it’s not.
Regardless, knees go left, they’re angulated.
One can only tip the foot so far, not very, before the tibia, knee, femur, hip get involved.

 

[dan ross]

Could be the foot is also a sensor that gives the brain more precise feedback as to the angle of the boot. Maybe without this more precise sensory calculation (compared to shin), the body doesn't know how much tipping angle has been achieved compared to tipping predominantly by shin. Or the angle calculation is less precise by shin compared to foot pronating/supinating or "feeling" the angle of the footbed.

My Nuerosurgeon told me the feet are second only to the eyes in the amount of information they send to the brain.
Just think about when your foot/leg “ falls asleep “- how’s your balance? They are indeed the “ sensors” with thousands of nerve endings that send constant feedback to the brain about balance. Personally, I’ve always thought that skiing begins with the feet but I learned on straight skis when turn initiation was different and harder.

 

[James]

My Nuerosurgeon told me the feet are second only to the eyes in the amount of information they send to the brain.
Just think about when your foot/leg “ falls asleep “- how’s your balance? They are indeed the “ sensors” with thousands of nerve endings that send constant feedback to the brain about balance. Personally, I’ve always thought that skiing begins with the feet but I learned on straight skis when turn initiation was different and harder.

This is partly why you don’t want your foot “cast in concrete” inside the boot. Nor to go numb. It’s also partly why I don’t get the lifting the foot obsession.

After Hermann Maier’s accident, he apparently couldn’t feel anything on the bottom of that foot. Amazing he could come back.

 

[dan ross]

Agree 1000% about the foot “ cast in concrete “ being a bad thing. There was some coach /boot guru ( names escape me) who preached the merits of foot movement in the boot for racing. Naturally, this was controversial but he had some impressive results and true believers. Of course movement doesn’t mean looseness, just that a mobile foot allows for better /faster activation of the leg muscles .
Another thing never discussed is foot strength- think ballet dancers - ridiculously strong feet but they know where their balance originates from.

 

[markojp]

This is partly why you don’t want your foot “cast in concrete” inside the boot. Nor to go numb. It’s also partly why I don’t get the lifting the foot obsession.

After Hermann Maier’s accident, he apparently couldn’t feel anything on the bottom of that foot. Amazing he could come back.

He's a .01 percent athlete, we're not. If you don't understand lifting the foot inside the boot and what it can do for establishing cuff contact while moving your CoM about 2" forward, It'd be necessary to demo it on snow for you. Is cuff tension constant and static? No, but foot lifting (top of the foot to top of the boot) is a first step in getting us to feel the bottom of the boot through the arch, and that in turn helps us know what our skis are doing on the snow.

 

[geepers]

This one's a classic. Sean Warman.

Will we ski better with toenails painted red?