Spine Protective Vests, etc.

Discussion in 'Softgoods: Clothing, Helmets, Goggles, and More' started by milkman, Jul 20, 2018.

  1. milkman

    milkman Booting up Skier

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    20 years ago in Europe I was surprised to see what looked like Motocross racers body armor in ski shop windows. Today I see European visitors wearing protective vests daily. It's certainly more comfortable than the stiff exoskeleton armor sold 20 years ago.
    I asked a couple of middle aged guys how often they wear their "body armor" and they said "every day". They said, "It's comfortable and it's warm so why not wear it". These were 50-60 year old male "on piste" skiers who were skiing with their wives on the day I talked with them. They wore it on over their long underwear but under everything else.
    How many people on this forum wear protective clothing regularly? Why? Why not?
     
  2. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Making fresh tracks Pugski Ski Tester Industry Insider

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    I always wear a back protector when I race speed. Also a mouth guard.

    I have contemplated wearing the back protector for inbounds skiing as I tend to be in the trees or in steep open terrain with exposed and just barely covered rocks.
     
  3. scott43

    scott43 Making fresh tracks Skier

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    I don't wear one..I haven't contemplated wearing one. I just don't think I'm in that much danger based on how I ski. Having said that, the warmth thing is a good one..I see people mountain biking with protective gear and have no idea how they can wear that stuff, it's so hot. But in winter..yeah..kinda makes more sense to me.
     
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  4. epic

    epic Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    I've thought of wearing one. I think all racing kids should be required to wear them.
     
  5. fatbob

    fatbob Out on the slopes Skier

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    Is this not an exact repost of an earlier thread?
     


  6. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    More like three earlier ones.

    As I expressed in at least one of those other threads, I am still not convinced that mass adoption of hardshell spine armour should happen before we've come up with a workable solution to protect the section of spine below the ears and above the shoulders.
     
  7. LKLA

    LKLA Out on the slopes Skier

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    Why not adopt them? Even if it they help just a bit as long as they are not harmful then it would seem to be better to have one than to not be wearing one.

    Surely it is far from perfect - one of the reasons being what you point out - but that is the case to one degree or another with just about every piece of safety equipment.

    I just hope people (kids in particular) do not throw caution to the wind because they are wearing spine protection.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  8. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    Compensatory behaviour happens, certainly, but that wasn't my concern.

    That's the key sentence. And I don't want to find out, to pick a conceivable example, that wearing spine armor without a neck brace or similar energy dissipator increases whiplash injuries in falls where first impact was lower down, closer to the kidneys say.
     
  9. scott43

    scott43 Making fresh tracks Skier

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    Back protectors have been mandatory in motorcycle racing for years now. I wear one for track days where they're highly recommended and sometimes mandatory. There is nothing for neck injuries with that. A situation made worse when you have a relatively heavy motorcycle helmet on your head. I don't know off-hand of any stats for neck injuries before/after back protectors. I don't think there are many motorcycle racers/track day riders who would forego the back protector regardless.
     
  10. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    Leatt:

    https://www.amazon.com/Leatt-Brace-Street-Motorcycle-Armor/dp/B005X21ESM

    Airbag brace:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/..._dc|pcrid|253669369657|pkw||pmt||prd|590912US

    MX foam brace, primarily for landing compression and hyperextension type muscular sprains:

    https://www.motosport.com/product/?...01-Y001&pssource=true&rkg_id=0&segment=badger
     
  11. scott43

    scott43 Making fresh tracks Skier

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    I've never seen any of those on the street or track. I guess they're in use? Dunno. Airbags are for sure more popular now but out of price range for most street peeps I imagine. Pro riders are using them for sure.
     
  12. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Making fresh tracks Pugski Ski Tester Industry Insider

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    LKLA said:
    Please elaborate or provide links.

    Motorcycle helmets are not ski helmets and the post was about use for skiing. Most ski helmets don't come close to down to the hairline in the back while, at first blush, most motorcycle helmets do. I admittedly am much more familiar with ski than moto helmets. Also ski helmets are light, especially by comparison to motorcycle helmets.

    FWIW, I'm not questioning your POV, but interested in data regarding this. In ski racing, neck protection is non-existent while back protector usage is nearly universal for at least SG and DH.
     
  13. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    Just so we're clear, my contention in this (and previous) threads is that there isn't sufficient data to make any sort of declaration of 'not harmful' for the general public.

    Making an argument about helmet weight here is misleading for two reasons:
    a) the deceleration at the armor/unprotected neck boundary is exactly the same no matter what the weight at the other end
    b) the range of helmet/head weight ratios is going to be narrower than the range of impact energies; one is linear the other goes as the square of velocity.
     
  14. Jason Kurth

    Jason Kurth Florida Downhiller Skier

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    Which one do you use? I'm trying to decide which type would fit and work best under a suit and stay put while being low profile.

    I was looking at the slytech noshock bare or the poc vpd comp

    https://shredoptics.com/collections/slytech-body-protection/products/back-protector-noshock-naked

    https://www.pocsports.com/us/products/spine-vpd-system-comp-back/20610.html

    Apparently you can take the straps/belt off the slytech and similar styles to wear under a suit but idk how well that would work. the poc I linked looks interesting and kind of like a hybrid between vest and harness type without the straps or being a full vest. wish poc would publish better sizing info.
     
  15. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Making fresh tracks Pugski Ski Tester Industry Insider

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    Understood on the lack of data.

    If there is no physical connection between the helmet and the spine protector, how does a spine protector affect the potential and/or severity of whiplash?
     
  16. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Making fresh tracks Pugski Ski Tester Industry Insider

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    I'd have to look, but I think it is a slytech. It is probably 10 or more years old and not available. It was second hand to me. I'll post pictures later. It has an elastic waist belt with a velcro closure and connects to the protector with velcro. I get the belt where I want it and it will stay, then attach the protector to the belt. I have removed the elastic shoulder straps. It stays in place nicely under my stealth top under my speed suit.
     
  17. scott43

    scott43 Making fresh tracks Skier

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    I suppose if you limit the ability of the spine below the shoulders to absorb impact, because the back protector is protecting that area, you could increase the effect above the shoulders because it's less supported compared to the back protector section.
     
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  18. fatbob

    fatbob Out on the slopes Skier

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    The only evidence you'll get will be largely anecdotal. As far as I am concerned they are there for direct impacts to the area of the spine covered. I'm benefitted in 2 types of fall - the cheesegrater rock type where I might have shredded skin in addition to clothing and the direct slam. As explained on the duplicate thread I feel I directly benefitted from this once when I really cocked up in unfamiliar terrain. Whiplash wasn't really my concern. Being able to ski away and walk to my car even with some pain is something I valued tremendously.
     
  19. Jason Kurth

    Jason Kurth Florida Downhiller Skier

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  20. oldschoolskier

    oldschoolskier Out on the slopes Skier

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    Protection and the materials used are a great development. Light and protective and always evolving.

    There is a downside. We get used to the protection allowing us to to risker things and push the limits further. In doing so we great greatly increase our risk for serious injury as we find the limits of increased protection.

    So IMHO protection is both a blessing and a curse by protecting against serious injury and encouraging behaviour that increases injury.
     

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