I'm aware of some skiers who want to ski terrain with exposed rocks/ledges because it's fun terrain, but they don't want to ruin their own skis and forgot to bring their rock skis. So they rent.
For them, rentals = rock skis.
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Rock skis.... Why do skiers ski over rocks?
- Thread starter Coolhand
- Start date
-
- Tags
- are skis becoming more fragile? core shots to skis damage to demo skis more worried about my edges than the ptex p-tex people just don't care if they ski in the rocks pulled out edges rental skis are getting wrecked rock skis rocks are hidden under thin snow cover the cirque at snowbird thin snow year
I'm aware of some skiers who want to ski terrain with exposed rocks/ledges because it's fun terrain, but they don't want to ruin their own skis and forgot to bring their rock skis. So they rent.
For them, rentals = rock skis.
I remember a time I was skiing on what was announced as a 60 inch base. I hit a 61 inch rock.
- Joined
- May 2, 2017
- Posts
- 4,348
Missed the sign that said trail closed before skiing down to goat.
Ski Liberty in PA used to have signs at the top of their double black terrain that said "No Rental Skis". I don't know if it was to protect the skis, or protect any skier who was renting.
Either way, it's funny, since Ski Liberty is a ski hill with 600 vertical feet, and the double black terrain is two short pitches at the top that you're down after about 3 turns. But they expected rentals to go around another way. I may have skied it - and fallen down it - several times back when I was renting skis.
Either way, it's funny, since Ski Liberty is a ski hill with 600 vertical feet, and the double black terrain is two short pitches at the top that you're down after about 3 turns. But they expected rentals to go around another way. I may have skied it - and fallen down it - several times back when I was renting skis.
Ski Liberty in PA used to have signs at the top of their double black terrain that said "No Rental Skis". I don't know if it was to protect the skis, or protect any skier who was renting.
Either way, it's funny, since Ski Liberty is a ski hill with 600 vertical feet, and the double black terrain is two short pitches at the top that you're down after about 3 turns. But they expected rentals to go around another way. I may have skied it - and fallen down it - several times back when I was renting skis.
Didn't Roundtop do the same thing at the top of Gunbarrel and Ramrod? I always thought it was because those runs are all moguled and no one expected rental bindings to have enough elasticity to deal with rapid shocks, not and stay on the boot.
Don't know if Roundtop did that - the day I met you there was the first time I'd ever been there.
I skied Liberty with the signs just maybe 5 or 6 years ago though, or pretty modern rental equipment. I would be surprised if that was the reason (plus they'd groomed one of slopes at Liberty - no moguls.)
Then they were lax in removing them at the appropriate time/upgrade to modern equipment!
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2016
- Posts
- 405
If there's a trail I want to ski and there might be some rocks... well, I try to avoid them, but I'm going to ski it.
When I first started skiing I viewed it as this terrible thing, even got a core shot on my first ever pair of new skis shortly thereafter, hit a rock on a blue groomer at high speed, I thought they were done for. Shop fixed them right up for me.
After last season being so awful in my area, two things changed:
1) I got better at watching for rocks and changing lines at the last minute and
2) I learned how to repair gouges including core shots
This season I've gotten a lot of gouges and core shots, but I've had a blast skiing the heck out of the mountain. As for other people's property, I took 7 different pairs of demo skis down the same trail to compare them as closely as possible. I knew there were rocks and did my best to avoid them. I did get some scrapes, but no core shots and no torn edges. I heard the Volkl rep telling someone to keep it to the groomers because they'd had some edges torn out the prior day. Sorry, but the point of demos is to test how they ski on the stuff I want to ski. That's a cost of putting out skis for demos. For what they cost to make I think the sales should well overshoot the costs, at least if they demo well.
When I first started skiing I viewed it as this terrible thing, even got a core shot on my first ever pair of new skis shortly thereafter, hit a rock on a blue groomer at high speed, I thought they were done for. Shop fixed them right up for me.
After last season being so awful in my area, two things changed:
1) I got better at watching for rocks and changing lines at the last minute and
2) I learned how to repair gouges including core shots
This season I've gotten a lot of gouges and core shots, but I've had a blast skiing the heck out of the mountain. As for other people's property, I took 7 different pairs of demo skis down the same trail to compare them as closely as possible. I knew there were rocks and did my best to avoid them. I did get some scrapes, but no core shots and no torn edges. I heard the Volkl rep telling someone to keep it to the groomers because they'd had some edges torn out the prior day. Sorry, but the point of demos is to test how they ski on the stuff I want to ski. That's a cost of putting out skis for demos. For what they cost to make I think the sales should well overshoot the costs, at least if they demo well.
Last edited:
Brock you are obviously not alone with that opinion including some of those others posting here so it is no wonder many shops won't let their expensive demo skis out on slopes early season until resort snow bases are deep enough. There is an abundance of advanced terrain where I ski and some of those places are very rocky. However there are also many advanced slopes where rocks are not an issue to adequately test any type of skis. Thus it would seem at most resorts that a demo ski renter really does not need to be skiing rocky lines on demo skis. And if they do, would suspect that has more to do with the desire to ski exciting terrain they like with obstacles being stronger than any concern for demo skis if they don't expect to be held accountable for damage.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2016
- Posts
- 405
Honestly, I saw no agreement when I signed up for demo days, just waivers. It was unclear to me if I would be liable or not. I assumed normal wear and tear like gouges and even core shots were par for the course but I'd probably be in trouble for torn out edges and more severe. I'm sure it varies a lot but in my case there was one excellent trail right off the main lift that allowed me to do quick laps to test. I couldn't really take 30 minutes of lifts each time and test all the skis I wanted.
A long gouge down the middle of the ski that never touches the edges is a badge of honor!
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2017
- Posts
- 397
Love it! Great line.
I skied this run a few weeks ago :
It was open, and it didn't look too bad, so I skied it... but I probably hit 20 rocks. It's a gentle run, so no core shots or anything, but lots of little dings. And obviously, a bunch of other people skied it too.
It was open, and it didn't look too bad, so I skied it... but I probably hit 20 rocks. It's a gentle run, so no core shots or anything, but lots of little dings. And obviously, a bunch of other people skied it too.
I have not rented skis in years so I can't speak to the public treatment of rental equipment. As far as my own equipment I do my best to avoid rocks but they are a fact of life because that is what our beloved mountains are made of, so we just have to deal with it.
Thanks @dbostedo for that image of an obviously shallow depth slope with fresh new snow where lots of enthusiasts rode over it and like you many are now melting p-tex and using a wire brush on their file. If I saw such a shallow run out here at our resorts, I would never ski it. Another factor I didn't mention earlier is that there is significant difference in how skiers will view the issue depending on regions they ski. In regions without abundant snows, enthusiasts have long learned to jump on any fresh snow that falls, especially if powdery, obviously with little consideration for their skis. I've never really skied east of the Rockies but images I see on boards like this show many of your resorts to the east can be bony at all times of a season and that varies much year to year. We had our recent 4 year record drought and many of us simply skied little.
Of course usually it is very different out here in The West though we have a few often bony marginal lower elevation resorts too. Since Turkey day (about 70 days), my resort has had 17 snow days of more than an inch of new snow or snow one out of every four days. Our mid resort base is now 68 inches with 80 at the ridge line from 210 inches total fallen. When I drove up last week there were about a half dozen spots along the highway with drifted snow the plows went through showing a 15 to 20 foot deep white cliff.
So obviously unlike in your region, we have an option to ignore early season shallow snow depths and wait till rocks are not an issue. Regardless there are always rocks poking up in places even when base depths are over 10 feet deep because that is the nature of snow deposition given wind and terrain. So there are still those here that hit a lot of rocks because they choose to ski the often challenging steep rocky places or on fresh snow days when some of those rocks are barely covered up, are ignorant of where rocks are or don't care about what lies just below.
Of course usually it is very different out here in The West though we have a few often bony marginal lower elevation resorts too. Since Turkey day (about 70 days), my resort has had 17 snow days of more than an inch of new snow or snow one out of every four days. Our mid resort base is now 68 inches with 80 at the ridge line from 210 inches total fallen. When I drove up last week there were about a half dozen spots along the highway with drifted snow the plows went through showing a 15 to 20 foot deep white cliff.
So obviously unlike in your region, we have an option to ignore early season shallow snow depths and wait till rocks are not an issue. Regardless there are always rocks poking up in places even when base depths are over 10 feet deep because that is the nature of snow deposition given wind and terrain. So there are still those here that hit a lot of rocks because they choose to ski the often challenging steep rocky places or on fresh snow days when some of those rocks are barely covered up, are ignorant of where rocks are or don't care about what lies just below.
well, from a financial perspective from a non-passholder, single trip renter.
If they are paying $150 for a lift ticket, and average 15runs a day, each lift ridce is costing $10 in the lift ticket.
If you were to factor in lodging and rentals skis, each run is now $20 if not more.
What's the difference to pay an extra couple bucks to cover damages when you're already throwing out that much per run, to ski the run that looks awesome in an aggressive fun manner rather than a cautious pick your way down manner.
My point is if pricing were different, people would view the skis more expensively than the rest of the activity.
If they are paying $150 for a lift ticket, and average 15runs a day, each lift ridce is costing $10 in the lift ticket.
If you were to factor in lodging and rentals skis, each run is now $20 if not more.
What's the difference to pay an extra couple bucks to cover damages when you're already throwing out that much per run, to ski the run that looks awesome in an aggressive fun manner rather than a cautious pick your way down manner.
My point is if pricing were different, people would view the skis more expensively than the rest of the activity.
Last edited:
Locally, we are having a thin snow year. Our turn, I guess.
Our Demo and rental skis are getting wrecked, far worse than normal. We are seeing a much higher incidence of core shots and pulled out edges, and outright broken skis. Customers equipment as well...
So, are skis becoming more fragile and less durable than in years past? IDK, has the ultralight trend gone too far?
Or
Are skiers attitudes and habits causing this? Is it that people just don't care if they ski in the rocks or avoid obstacles? Is it the mentality that "It's a rental, who cares?" ? What really gets to me, is that renters, will argue with you about ski damage that they are clearly responsible for. They blame the ski or the conditions, when confronted with a bill for repair.
I get that accidents happen, and sometimes rock damage is unavoidable. But, most of the time, damage can be avoided if you are paying attention. As the guy that repairs and tunes skis for a living, I very, very, rarely get any damage to my skis when I am skiing. I ski very aggressively, but I certainly pay attention to the snow conditions and where I put my skis.
Curious, what folks on this forum think.
Are skis just fragile?
Do you have experience with ski brands that are tough and resist edge blow outs and/or core shots?
Is this shop guy, just whining?
You should tune snowboards.
There were some rocks here, but totally worth it. Even on my own Stocklis.