Comparison Review Philpug's 2020 Reviews, 100-109mm Skis

[DanoT]

What kind of conditions were you skiing?

I skied the Black Crows, Atris in mostly 15-20 cm of fresh dry untracked snow, some on runs that were groomed a few days prior, some runs groomed and then snowed on overnight, some runs that have never been groomed, some cut up snow in the afternoon.

 

[Tom K.]

One of my personal best pow days ever at Meadows today, because it flat out DUMPED real snowflakes all morning and stayed cold. Not a common combination here.

The MB 108s were awesome again. Nothing really new to add to my previous observations. High performance combined with ease of use. No chinks in the armor, so far.

 

[EmperorMA]

What we be a good quiver mate to an 88-93 charger like Brahma 88, Enforcer 88/93, Experience 88 Ti or Evolv 90 in 100-108mm that would only come out when the crud or powder demanded it? So, not a daily driver but more like a long iron that sits in the bag most of the time.

 

[Tom K.]

What we be a good quiver mate to an 88-93 charger like Brahma 88, Enforcer 88/93, Experience 88 Ti or Evolv 90 in 100-108mm that would only come out when the crud or powder demanded it? So, not a daily driver but more like a long iron that sits in the bag most of the time.

MB 108 would be a perfect "step" up from a 90 mm ski, and would come out to play more frequently than a 115.

I'm finicky about skis. My MB 108s are going to be around for a LONG time. Like an Enforcer 100, a great blend of performance and ease of use.

 

[Tom K.]

Had the unbelievable good fortune of skiing the MB 108s on a bluebird, 11" day at Jackson Hole two days ago. So good. So easy. I had not skied them in steep, JH-sized bumps yet. Totally in their wheelhouse. Happier than ever with these skis.

A fine day!

 

[EmperorMA]

Had the unbelievable good fortune of skiing the MB 108s on a bluebird, 11" day at Jackson Hole two days ago. So good. So easy. I had not skied them in steep, JH-sized bumps yet. Totally in their wheelhouse. Happier than ever with these skis.

A fine day!

You just put the MB 108 on my demo list!

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Any additional experience with or evaluations of the DPS Alchemist Wailer 100RP?

 

[Tiger1016]

The Mindbender 108 I have not been on, but that K2 ski buddy has been trying to get the 108 to be non-hooky dependably (in certain powder and crud) partly unsuccessfully - for most of a season, actually (through various different ways of mounting and tuning it, I gather - maybe technique as well?).

Did your friend happen to ever get things figured out with the K2 Mindbender 108 and the hooky issues? BTW I finally opened up an account here just to ask this question.


Building on this basic question...

I was able to demo the Mindbenders for a day (179cm length, I am 5’ 10”, 185 lbs, average expert abilities). They were everything I have been looking for off piste, which is my main focus for them, but I had some odd hooky issues on the few groomers that I got them on for the day, which I am trying to figure out. I am hoping the issues might have just been related to something being off with the tuning, and I am basically looking to see if anyone else has had similar hooky issues on piste or can attest to not having any problems.

My guess was that the on piste issues were more of a tuning thing, but the shop did not note anything off when I called to talk to them about it after the fact. The feedback was the shop does a 1* base and 2* side tune and also detunes the tips on all of their skis, and they allegedly went back and checked the skis and did not see anything off. However, the guy that I talked to for the follow up call, who was not the original guy that I had been working with, went out of his way to be a real dick and tried to be as unhelpful as possible, so I don’t really know if he actually gave them a real check. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get another shot at a demo for the rest of the year, so I was kind of trying to talk myself into taking the leap of faith and just buying the Mindbenders already. However, I see that ski otter 2 had made multiple comments in this thread and another about his friends unresolved issues with these skis, and this is holding me back.

My particular issues are;
1) When cruising on a straight away cat track with bases flat and straight with no turning, I found the tips wanting to veer away with nearly every rut they came across. This almost caused a few falls. I had this issue with the 2016 Line Supernatural 108 at 186cm, but it was actually worse and lead to a bases flat cat track falls all 4 times I took these out (I never tried to mess with the tuning). I have not had this issue with any other skis that I have spent enough time on 2016 Kastle FX95 HP 181cm (my main ski), 2016 Blizzard Cochise 178cm, 2020 Black Crows Atris 184cm. I am wondering if this might be more related to the shape of the Mindbender and Supernatural rather than tuning.
2) When trying to carve up some GS and Super G types of turns on groomers at medium speeds of ~30 to 40 mph I found on multiple occasions over just two runs that the two skis naturally wanted to track on different turn radiuses. The issue was mostly when turning left, going from the top of the turn into the apex, my soon to be uphill left ski would track on the tighter intended path while the right ski would want to make a bigger radius turn and I would feel like I was starting to go into the splits at the apex of the turn. My only option was to literally lift up the right ski to break out of what would have otherwise been a disastrous cycle. I can only recall experiencing something like this one time a few years back, so it is not a common technique flaw kind of thing for me. I want to believe it has something to do with something being off with the tuning of one of the skis rather than these skis being overly sensitive to something I might be doing wrong, even though I have not had this issue with any other ski yet.

So I am basically trying to figure out if anyone else has had similar hooky issues with the Mindbender 108 on piste or if there is enough of a consensus that say they should be good.

 

[Vinnie]

Did your friend happen to ever get things figured out with the K2 Mindbender 108 and the hooky issues? BTW I finally opened up an account here just to ask this question.


Building on this basic question...

I was able to demo the Mindbenders for a day (179cm length, I am 5’ 10”, 185 lbs, average expert abilities). They were everything I have been looking for off piste, which is my main focus for them, but I had some odd hooky issues on the few groomers that I got them on for the day, which I am trying to figure out. I am hoping the issues might have just been related to something being off with the tuning, and I am basically looking to see if anyone else has had similar hooky issues on piste or can attest to not having any problems.

My guess was that the on piste issues were more of a tuning thing, but the shop did not note anything off when I called to talk to them about it after the fact. The feedback was the shop does a 1* base and 2* side tune and also detunes the tips on all of their skis, and they allegedly went back and checked the skis and did not see anything off. However, the guy that I talked to for the follow up call, who was not the original guy that I had been working with, went out of his way to be a real dick and tried to be as unhelpful as possible, so I don’t really know if he actually gave them a real check. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get another shot at a demo for the rest of the year, so I was kind of trying to talk myself into taking the leap of faith and just buying the Mindbenders already. However, I see that ski otter 2 had made multiple comments in this thread and another about his friends unresolved issues with these skis, and this is holding me back.

My particular issues are;
1) When cruising on a straight away cat track with bases flat and straight with no turning, I found the tips wanting to veer away with nearly every rut they came across. This almost caused a few falls. I had this issue with the 2016 Line Supernatural 108 at 186cm, but it was actually worse and lead to a bases flat cat track falls all 4 times I took these out (I never tried to mess with the tuning). I have not had this issue with any other skis that I have spent enough time on 2016 Kastle FX95 HP 181cm (my main ski), 2016 Blizzard Cochise 178cm, 2020 Black Crows Atris 184cm. I am wondering if this might be more related to the shape of the Mindbender and Supernatural rather than tuning.
2) When trying to carve up some GS and Super G types of turns on groomers at medium speeds of ~30 to 40 mph I found on multiple occasions over just two runs that the two skis naturally wanted to track on different turn radiuses. The issue was mostly when turning left, going from the top of the turn into the apex, my soon to be uphill left ski would track on the tighter intended path while the right ski would want to make a bigger radius turn and I would feel like I was starting to go into the splits at the apex of the turn. My only option was to literally lift up the right ski to break out of what would have otherwise been a disastrous cycle. I can only recall experiencing something like this one time a few years back, so it is not a common technique flaw kind of thing for me. I want to believe it has something to do with something being off with the tuning of one of the skis rather than these skis being overly sensitive to something I might be doing wrong, even though I have not had this issue with any other ski yet.

So I am basically trying to figure out if anyone else has had similar hooky issues with the Mindbender 108 on piste or if there is enough of a consensus that say they should be good.

I demo’d a 172 and 179 Mindbender 108ti the other day (me: 5’4, 160lbs) and didn’t find them to be hooky in wind packed, powder or soft chop. They actually tracked really nicely. On groomers there was one turn I did with the 179 where I had something like the split that you talked about but pretty sure it was me, not the ski. Did not have any issues with running bases flat on a cat track. The 108ti’s have a fairly long turn radius so seems that if there are problems when running bases flat it would be a tuning issue where the tip or tail edges were catching. Hope this helps. BTW based on the demo I ended up ordering a Mindbender 108ti @172cm. For me the the 179cm was little bit more stable at speed and a little less maneuverable in chopped up snow. So I opted for the shorter length, which is really more appropriate for my size, etc.

 

[ski otter 2]

Did your friend happen to ever get things figured out with the K2 Mindbender 108 and the hooky issues? BTW I finally opened up an account here just to ask this question.


Building on this basic question...

I was able to demo the Mindbenders for a day (179cm length, I am 5’ 10”, 185 lbs, average expert abilities). They were everything I have been looking for off piste, which is my main focus for them, but I had some odd hooky issues on the few groomers that I got them on for the day, which I am trying to figure out. I am hoping the issues might have just been related to something being off with the tuning, and I am basically looking to see if anyone else has had similar hooky issues on piste or can attest to not having any problems.

My guess was that the on piste issues were more of a tuning thing, but the shop did not note anything off when I called to talk to them about it after the fact. The feedback was the shop does a 1* base and 2* side tune and also detunes the tips on all of their skis, and they allegedly went back and checked the skis and did not see anything off. However, the guy that I talked to for the follow up call, who was not the original guy that I had been working with, went out of his way to be a real dick and tried to be as unhelpful as possible, so I don’t really know if he actually gave them a real check. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get another shot at a demo for the rest of the year, so I was kind of trying to talk myself into taking the leap of faith and just buying the Mindbenders already. However, I see that ski otter 2 had made multiple comments in this thread and another about his friends unresolved issues with these skis, and this is holding me back.

My particular issues are;
1) When cruising on a straight away cat track with bases flat and straight with no turning, I found the tips wanting to veer away with nearly every rut they came across. This almost caused a few falls. I had this issue with the 2016 Line Supernatural 108 at 186cm, but it was actually worse and lead to a bases flat cat track falls all 4 times I took these out (I never tried to mess with the tuning). I have not had this issue with any other skis that I have spent enough time on 2016 Kastle FX95 HP 181cm (my main ski), 2016 Blizzard Cochise 178cm, 2020 Black Crows Atris 184cm. I am wondering if this might be more related to the shape of the Mindbender and Supernatural rather than tuning.
2) When trying to carve up some GS and Super G types of turns on groomers at medium speeds of ~30 to 40 mph I found on multiple occasions over just two runs that the two skis naturally wanted to track on different turn radiuses. The issue was mostly when turning left, going from the top of the turn into the apex, my soon to be uphill left ski would track on the tighter intended path while the right ski would want to make a bigger radius turn and I would feel like I was starting to go into the splits at the apex of the turn. My only option was to literally lift up the right ski to break out of what would have otherwise been a disastrous cycle. I can only recall experiencing something like this one time a few years back, so it is not a common technique flaw kind of thing for me. I want to believe it has something to do with something being off with the tuning of one of the skis rather than these skis being overly sensitive to something I might be doing wrong, even though I have not had this issue with any other ski yet.

So I am basically trying to figure out if anyone else has had similar hooky issues with the Mindbender 108 on piste or if there is enough of a consensus that say they should be good.

Hi! Bottom line:
The Mindbender 108 problems were solved for my friend, and for me - at least on the right demo pair, which was strongly a "go." Now if I can just get my particular new 186 pair tuned decently. (I do my own tuning/base-flattening.)

My pair I skied for the first time this past week in a foot of medium powder (me 5'10," c. 150 lbs); and I'm not sure yet what was wrong, since the demo pair was so wonderful. The problem was different from just being hooky. (Thankfully, I had backup powder/crud skis I'd brought along just in case.)

Three things:
1. My friend (c. 5'9"/c. 175 lbs.) got his 108s sorted out: I seem to recall he slightly flattened/smoothed the bases, but more important, he de-tuned his 186s for a few inches where the tip starts upward, well forward of the contact point; and then recently he moved the mount to +2 (for the 186 only, not recommended for shorter versions), as the ski rep suggested to both of us. The rep told him - and me later - that unless you are a tall and big guy, a number of shorter folks have found hookiness and ski length problems resolved by that move to +2.

2. On the strength of this, I demoed the MB 108 186 twice, once on the 19/20 (yellow) version before Christmas (with inconclusive results on an "old snow" day, skied on the line) - when I found them to be soft snow skis only, at least for me; and a second time more recently, finally on a powder day, on the 20/21 (white) version.

The particular demo 186 pair I got on second was, for me, one of the best soft snow skis I've ever been on (on a 4" to 8" day, depending on where you were on the mountain). I tried it first at the line, no problems but a lot of ski and a lot of fat tip out there in front of me; so, second I went to c. +.7 cm., which was better; then to +c. 1.4 cm, much better. I then tried c. +2.1 cm (three steps forward on the new Marker Griffon GW demo bindings, measured). This was best, in my case. The difference, to me, was not subtle. I didn't want to get off those skis. They were my favorites of the demo.

I found a pair for myself by the end of the week. (They are almost sold out for this year in this 186 length, but I'm told next year's version is the same except predominantly white instead of yellow - it was a white version I skied in powder, but a yellow version I bought.)
(Hope this helps.)