Comparison Review Philpug's 2020 Reviews, 100-109mm Skis

[ski otter 2]

It's hard for me to keep up with the changes to the ON3P skis, but for me the Bill Goat felt and handled very differently than the Kartel 108 (now renamed the Jeffrey 108, not sure if built different or not.) I happened to like the BG very much. The Kartel not so much: for me it was relatively more playful, not good on edge, or overall - for my skiing profile. The BG was a standout. And playful enough.

I've heard the Origins are favored by those who do a lot of bumps with a fairly laid back style - or in the case of the 106, soft bumps. Good pivot and slarve, with some stability.

 

[GregK]

It's hard for me to keep up with the changes to the ON3P skis, but for me the Bill Goat felt and handled very differently than the Kartel 108 (now renamed the Jeffrey 108, not sure if built different or not.) I happened to like the BG very much. The Kartel not so much: for me it was relatively more playful, not good on edge, or overall - for my skiing profile. The BG was a standout. And playful enough.

I've heard the Origins are favored by those who do a lot of bumps with a fairly laid back style - or in the case of the 106, soft bumps. Good pivot and slarve, with some stability.

I would agree with that description of the Origins-very forgiving, easy to pivot and like most playful twins, a lot of fun in bumps.
Huge bump skier myself and all my twins are a blast in moguls.

ON3P had the the playful Kartel(now called Jeffrey again) and the more traditional and stable Wrenegade. Many people either moved the mount back on Jeffreys to make more stable or tried to move mounts up on Wrens to make a bit more playful. Now they have the Woodsman that’s an “in between” ski. More playful then the Wren(but almost as stable) and more serious than the Jeffrey(but still very fun).
The Woodsman sounds more like your type of ski.

 

[GregK]

Forgot to add this review of the 2020 Origin 106 in case you haven’t seen it yet.

https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2019-2020-liberty-origin-106

If you can demo, another great ski in bumps that similar to the Metal but a better carver, even more stable, yet lighter on it’s feet is the Nordica Enforcer 104 Free that I have in my quiver. Moved the mount up into the Origin range to make it more playful and pivot easier. Might be a little too harder snow biased if you’re trying to replace the BG rather than adding a thinner option to it.

 

[ski otter 2]

I have a friend in the Biz whose favorite ski is the Origin 90 (he's a bit of a bumper too, like you).

The Wrenegades I just never "got," so far, maybe because of my lighter weight (150/5'10"). I was a real fan of the actual, original Jeffreys, both the more flexy Jeffrey 110 (which I use for "hot wheels" turns [big, round turns down the fall line with upper body still, in place]). It is a cheater ski at that. The last version, the Jeffrey 114, I almost bought, for me wonderful too: it was stiffer, more straight-forwardly chargeable, good in crud and versatile, playful; but easy to work the ski on edge, race ski like. I loved both, and still own the Jeffrey 110: tops at what it does. I think I'd like owning the BG too.

They say there is a 116 Woodsman, in addition to the 108. Both might work for me, except they are both probably relatively heavy - 2350 gm for the Woodsman 116 @ 187, for instance.

I do plan to demo the Woodsman 108, in addition to your Enforcer 104 Free. You've certainly put that Nordica 104 Free more in bold on the map for me, thanks.

 

[GregK]

The Origin 90 and the replacement Evolve 90 are very soft tip/tail and very light so they definitely would be fun in the bumps! Not so much in crud at speed I’m sure though.

ON3P are never light skis but that’s what makes them stable even with softer flex patterns I guess. With their more forward mounts and heavy tip/tail rocker they don’t seem to ski heavy though. Love my Moment Bibby’s as my wide ski and still trying to talk myself out of getting a pair of Moment Wildcat 108 as I’m sure they will be fantastic too. Very easy to pivot, great in crud and stable at high speeds yet they are in the 2000 gram range for the 184cm. Not as great as skis like the Enforcer 104 on groomers or harder snow but perfect for an out West ski/soft snow ski.

 

[ski otter 2]

The Origin 90 and the replacement Evolve 90 are very soft tip/tail and very light so they definitely would be fun in the bumps! Not so much in crud at speed I’m sure though.

ON3P are never light skis but that’s what makes them stable even with softer flex patterns I guess. With their more forward mounts and heavy tip/tail rocker they don’t seem to ski heavy though. Love my Moment Bibby’s as my wide ski and still trying to talk myself out of getting a pair of Moment Wildcat 108 as I’m sure they will be fantastic too. Very easy to pivot, great in crud and stable at high speeds yet they are in the 2000 gram range for the 184cm. Not as great as skis like the Enforcer 104 on groomers or harder snow but perfect for an out West ski/soft snow ski.

I very much like your approach to skis. Wonderful detail.

I've half-consciously avoided the Wildcats, maybe because their write ups on Blister made them seem not as good in crud compared to the Bibbys. But light is good.

I favor my 184 Bibbys; for me the longer 190s are great until snow got heavy and deep last season, then for me they were a bit much: optimally, I had to carry more speed on them on steeper slopes than I felt comfortable with, in those more difficult conditions - a fall in such deep, heavy chop at such speed would have been harder for me to handle now, being an old guy and such.

 

[GregK]

The new Wildcats are similar to the old Bibby’s when it comes to crud etc so only people used to Bibby’s would notice much of a difference I think. Only thing Moment changed was going to semi cap vs full sidewall in the tip/tail areas and going to fiberglass impregnated with carbon strips rather than adding strips separately which would have added weight in adhesive material.
These changes aid in preventing top sheet chipping tip/tail and reduce weight variances between skis but also decreases swing weight so the ski is even easier to ski.

People no longer have to be “big chargers” to ski the 190cm version as the lower swing weight makes them much easy to manage.

The Wildcat 108 uses a heavier, damper wood in the core(aspen/ash) so I charges like a 108 Bibby would. There was talk of changing the wider Wildcat to that core but hasn’t happened yet. Think if I switch out my Bibby’s I’ll just custom order that wood in mine so it will charge like a Bibby but will feel lighter with it’s reduced swing weight.

 

[fatbob]

Got on the Spoonbender 108 and the Rustler 10 last night.

K2 - kinda typical performance of a 1 oh something modern funshape.

Blizzard - a bit chargier, less loosey goosey slidey, locks in a bit more.

 

[DanielJ]

DPS Foundation Wailer 100 RP
Dimensions: 134-100-119
Radius: 15m@179cm
Sizes: 171, 179, 184, 189
Size tested: 184
Design: All New

It is true that RP in DPS’s model name means Resort Powder, but in the case of the all-new Wailer F100 RP, it should mean Really Playful. DPS abandoned the more traditionally shaped Wailer 99 to adapt the proven five-point sidecut from its cornerstone model, the Wailer 112 RP, and brought it down to the broader appeal of 100 width.

• Who is it for? Those who like to grin when they are skiing; the 100 RP is more fun than a basketful of puppies.
• Who is it not for? Figure 11 skiers; the 15m radius means the 100 RP wants to turn, and turn a lot.
• Insider tip: If you want a bit more uphill performance, step up to the Alchemist construction.

Hi Phil
just came across this, while I am trying to make up my mind over a recent purchsse of mine. A Wailer 100RP Foundation 184.
Thing is, I come from a 2014 W112RP Hybrid, which I sold recently. I am somewhat confused by how different the F100 now feels to my ski of old.
The most obvious difference being the stiffness. The F100 hand-flexes very stiff imho, stiffer than most other skis I had a look at. I had a hard time this weekend in variable, wind-affected conditions off piste. On piste they felt good, yet somewhat less easy than the old wailers, bit ,ore solid/stable.
I ski in Dynafit ZZero4 boots, the late edition with actual carbon cuffs, laterally super stiff, not so stiff forward. Still very solid for an AT boot.

Would you second my stiffness obervation reg. the Wailer 100 Foundation? Or are weekend snow conditions maybe blurring my opinion?

How would you rate "ease of skiing/playfulness" of the F100 Wailer among alternatives in the 98-110 spectrum? Like QST 99/106, Rustler 10, Enforcer 100/104? Like, where do I want to go if my concerns persist? 40/40/20 resort, backcountry, touring.

I am on the 184, 6'2 160lbs.

thanks in advance!
best
Daniel

 

[Philpug]

Hi Phil
just came across this, while I am trying to make up my mind over a recent purchsse of mine. A Wailer 100RP Foundation 184.
Thing is, I come from a 2014 W112RP Hybrid, which I sold recently. I am somewhat confused by how different the F100 now feels to my ski of old.
The most obvious difference being the stiffness. The F100 hand-flexes very stiff imho, stiffer than most other skis I had a look at. I had a hard time this weekend in variable, wind-affected conditions off piste. On piste they felt good, yet somewhat less easy than the old wailers, bit ,ore solid/stable.
I ski in Dynafit ZZero4 boots, the late edition with actual carbon cuffs, laterally super stiff, not so stiff forward. Still very solid for an AT boot.

Would you second my stiffness obervation reg. the Wailer 100 Foundation? Or are weekend snow conditions maybe blurring my opinion?

How would you rate "ease of skiing/playfulness" of the F100 Wailer among alternatives in the 98-110 spectrum? Like QST 99/106, Rustler 10, Enforcer 100/104? Like, where do I want to go if my concerns persist? 40/40/20 resort, backcountry, touring.

I am on the 184, 6'2 160lbs.

thanks in advance!
best
Daniel

The major difference between the new 100 and the 112 is the width, which is where much of the quikckness and playfulness comes from. I would had to hand flex the ski again to get a feel of the stiffnesses again but hand flexing is just that, on snow feel is what makes the final determining factor,

Compared to the other skis you mentioned, the W100 RP is the easiest and most playful.

 

[Noodler]

Hi Phil
just came across this, while I am trying to make up my mind over a recent purchsse of mine. A Wailer 100RP Foundation 184.
Thing is, I come from a 2014 W112RP Hybrid, which I sold recently. I am somewhat confused by how different the F100 now feels to my ski of old.
The most obvious difference being the stiffness. The F100 hand-flexes very stiff imho, stiffer than most other skis I had a look at. I had a hard time this weekend in variable, wind-affected conditions off piste. On piste they felt good, yet somewhat less easy than the old wailers, bit ,ore solid/stable.
I ski in Dynafit ZZero4 boots, the late edition with actual carbon cuffs, laterally super stiff, not so stiff forward. Still very solid for an AT boot.

Would you second my stiffness obervation reg. the Wailer 100 Foundation? Or are weekend snow conditions maybe blurring my opinion?

How would you rate "ease of skiing/playfulness" of the F100 Wailer among alternatives in the 98-110 spectrum? Like QST 99/106, Rustler 10, Enforcer 100/104? Like, where do I want to go if my concerns persist? 40/40/20 resort, backcountry, touring.

I am on the 184, 6'2 160lbs.

thanks in advance!
best
Daniel

My experience is that the Foundation layup <> the old Hybrid layup. I'm not sure of exactly where the differences are between the old Hybrid and the Foundation, but they are definitely different. I have to imagine that the Foundation achieves a lower cost build for DPS than they had with the Hybrid. I'll refrain from commenting more and wait for someone who has more in-depth knowledge of the differences and the results.

 

[pcjer]

Of course playing around again with the quiver, and came across this discussion around the DPS 100RP. I love the Liberty v82s I have in 179, and my big pow sticks. I am trying to find something that is my mostly go-to ski although not really a 1 ski quiver. 90% of the Origin 106 makes me very happy, but I do feel the tips fold up on me on low angle pow runs and wish they had a little better groomer performance for cruising around.

I recently picked up a pair of Woodsman 108s in 187 to mess around with. Have a couple days on them and definitely notice them being more work physically than the Origin 106s but expected that. Actually kind of like the workout they're giving me, and thinking they'll make me a better skier all around. If I don't stay on them they seem to turn into missles. Getting used to be a little more forward on the ski too.

Any opinions on how the Foundation 100RP or the Alchemist 100RP stack up to the Origin 106? Was kind of thinking the heavier Foundation layup may be a good solution for me and that they'd be a bit easier to throw around than the Woodsman 108. I have a 5 point design in my pow sticks and really enjoy it although the short effective edge I'm thinking I'd try the 189cm in the DPS. There is a local shop that demos them so I could take them for a spin of course, just curious on people's thoughts. Not many reviews out there on the particular ski. Any feedback on pow performance under 6-8" or so? Above that I take out the big guys. The comments from Daniel above have be interested since I'd have another 50lbs on them I'm thinking the stiffness isn't a problem.

I'm 6' 220lbs and do like to drive the shovels a bit, although I'm by no means an aggressive charger any longer.

 

[Daves not here]

So I am toying around with adding to the Quiver ... because - why not!

I have the new Brahma 82 (Fantastic, fun, quick, versatile ski), Bonafide (2015 1st carbon version - a spot on recommendation from @Philpug back in the day) and the Nordica Patron. I only use the Patrons when I go cat skiing and have fresh lines. If we have any more than 6 inches or so I live on my Bones. Love them. But a day like today has me thinking of a quiver addition. I am 6' and 215 - advanced intermediate.

Today at Schweitzer we had about 20-24 fresh over about a 24 hour period. I took my Bones out because I knew that while I may sacrifice a little in the first part of the day with float - I would make up for it when it got chopped up. To be honest - had a blast and have no issues with them in deep snow and the best chop and crud ski i have ever been on. But I am 52 and think a ski that is a little easier in the deep yet still good in chop would benefit my legs for days like.

I am initially thinking the Solly QST106 (My buddy had his on today and raves about them), the Rustler 10 and the enforcer 104. What else should I be looking at? Am I on the right track.

 

[Andy Mink]

So I am toying around with adding to the Quiver ... because - why not!

I have the new Brahma 82 (Fantastic, fun, quick, versatile ski), Bonafide (2015 1st carbon version - a spot on recommendation from @Philpug back in the day) and the Nordica Patron. I only use the Patrons when I go cat skiing and have fresh lines. If we have any more than 6 inches or so I live on my Bones. Love them. But a day like today has me thinking of a quiver addition. I am 6' and 215 - advanced intermediate.

Today at Schweitzer we had about 20-24 fresh over about a 24 hour period. I took my Bones out because I knew that while I may sacrifice a little in the first part of the day with float - I would make up for it when it got chopped up. To be honest - had a blast and have no issues with them in deep snow and the best chop and crud ski i have ever been on. But I am 52 and think a ski that is a little easier in the deep yet still good in chop would benefit my legs for days like.

I am initially thinking the Solly QST106 (My buddy had his on today and raves about them), the Rustler 10 and the enforcer 104. What else should I be looking at? Am I on the right track.

Armada Tracer 108 deserves a look.

 

[peterm]

So I am toying around with adding to the Quiver ... because - why not!

I have the new Brahma 82 (Fantastic, fun, quick, versatile ski), Bonafide (2015 1st carbon version - a spot on recommendation from @Philpug back in the day) and the Nordica Patron. I only use the Patrons when I go cat skiing and have fresh lines. If we have any more than 6 inches or so I live on my Bones. Love them. But a day like today has me thinking of a quiver addition. I am 6' and 215 - advanced intermediate.

Today at Schweitzer we had about 20-24 fresh over about a 24 hour period. I took my Bones out because I knew that while I may sacrifice a little in the first part of the day with float - I would make up for it when it got chopped up. To be honest - had a blast and have no issues with them in deep snow and the best chop and crud ski i have ever been on. But I am 52 and think a ski that is a little easier in the deep yet still good in chop would benefit my legs for days like.

I am initially thinking the Solly QST106 (My buddy had his on today and raves about them), the Rustler 10 and the enforcer 104. What else should I be looking at? Am I on the right track.

Black Crows Atris.

 

[DanoT]

Black Crows Atris.

I skied demo Black Crows Atris yesterday and it was my best ski day of the year with15-20cm of fresh. If I were to use one word to describe them it would be "smooth". I might have to buy a pair.

 

[Tom K.]

Christmas came a little late on Thursday, in the form of a pair of Mindbender 108s in 186. If NOAA is on track, I'll get them out tomorrow and report back.

I'm hoping for an Enforcer 100s combination of wide-ranging performance and ease of use!

 

[peterm]

I skied demo Black Crows Atris yesterday and it was my best ski day of the year with15-20cm of fresh. If I were to use one word to describe them it would be "smooth". I might have to buy a pair.

Yeah I demoed them for a day recently too - amazing ski! They were a stronger ski than I expected, and I really enjoyed opening then up on groomers and in light chop. I agree, smooth and composed at speed. For a ski that you can charge on, these are remarkably light and non-fatiguing.

Good float but didn't quite have the super playful feel in powder that I'm looking for. I mean, they're still somewhat playful and no-doubt more playful than the Bonefide but for reference I'm heading towards buying something more like a DPS Wailer 112 which is at another level of playful (and much more powder specific).

 

[Tom K.]

I got the new MB 108s in 186 out for their first day today in typical PNW "powder". Heavy-ish but creamy. Nothing about these skis sucks. Early days, but they may embody the Enforcer 100 combination of wide-ranging ability and ease-of-use.

They REALLY plane up well for a 108. Every bit as good or better than my Ranger 115s. And by late morning, when things were getting a bit used up and significant cross-chop was developing in the usual places, the width suited my lousy knees better than a 115.

BONUS: I did not see my skis on anybody else's feet all day!

Apologies for scattering this mini-review around a few different threads.

 

[Coach13]

I skied demo Black Crows Atris yesterday and it was my best ski day of the year with15-20cm of fresh. If I were to use one word to describe them it would be "smooth". I might have to buy a pair.

What kind of conditions were you skiing?