Thread Starter
TS
Wow! You got me on the stats for sure, and income inequality runs deep.
I guess the people I associate with are a tad different than the real numbers.
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Open Letter on Diversity in Our Sport
- Thread starter Tricia
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I guess the people I associate with are a tad different than the real numbers.
Thread Starter
TS
I got the same - "do you want to buy this paper"
Question time: why are there so few black skiers on the mountain?
And no it's not because black people don't like the cold as some freaks have suggestedcoolerlifestyle.com
Did this get posted yet? Sorry for not backtracking. Can anyone access the linked study? I might pay for it at some point, just curious.... (The first linked interview is readable, just not the actual work referred to.) Here is the abstract:
This article examines how structural and symbolic forces combine to produce racialized discourses of belonging and geographies of exclusion in and around downhill skiing. Drawing from literatures in Whiteness studies, sports sociology, leisure studies, and environmental history, I advance the concept of racial spatiality to illustrate how processes of everyday racism work to secure skiing’s social spaces as predominantly White, thereby restricting the participation and representation of Black skiers. Skiing’s hegemony of Whiteness is discussed in relation to parallel integration strategies of Black ski organizations, racialized representations of extreme skiing and snowboarding, and exclusionary residential development tactics. As a provisional effort to promote research on racism and leisure–sports–tourism, I argue that skiing offers a valuable site for considering the ongoing and overlooked saliencies of race and racial segregation in America.
And don’t forget the 1/2 dozen varieties of wine.On a twist of the truck being emptied, I imagine what it would look like if @KingGrump had his car unloaded by the road on 395 between Squaw and Mammoth.
Pots and pans and spices galore
A market is worth pursuing or it's not. One can't make it worth pursuing. But, I understand what you mean. There's definitely an investment to expand any untapped market. Looking at the population and the income data that @SBrown posted here,
I can see why those with even the best intentions will give pause in devoting marketing dollars to the black population. Low income amongst Blacks. And, though not shown in the posted data, low Asian population. Hispanics, IMO, definitely a case there to devote some marketing dollars. Rising population and more income in striking distance. Not addressing racism here. And, I know. This is sounding like making excuses, rather than seeking solutions.
haha I disagree that this is a factor/reason/excuse in a lot of areas. Not low asian % on tahoe slopes and Hispanics are already there too, but all are just hidden and brushed aside.
I remember in so lake one weekend was one of the pacuiao vs morales fights. In the casinos the screens were packed for the fight, and crowd was pretty split and obv cheering somewhat on racial/cultural lines (all in good spirit), but the diversity was there for both sides and same people are on the slopes only if you look.
But as pointed out the photographers are so homogeneous and don't have any asian or hispanic friends either, even in a locale where the population does have diversity on the slopes and in the area.
In Hot Dog they at least had Kendo in their crew (from "wha da f is a chinese downhill"), shame that a typical ski crew doing videos for the mountain typically is a step backwards in diversity from an 80s campy movie.
At least food and beverage have noticed since dollars there are more colorblind and results are results, and there is much more diversity in the food, with ramen, sushi, noodle bowls, and other similar cuisines.
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What I meant was, Are there any academics here who already have access?
Also, I just noticed the title of my second map up there lost its title; I will fix when I get a minute. It’s the distribution of ski areas across the US. Probably obvious, but maybe not.
My 2019. Telluride, very very few. Big Sky, none the weekend I was there. Whiteface, some, but far fewer than the 5% national population and a huge gap relative to NY population. Killington, rename it Killington Beach? Dolomites, none, but we didn’t hang out in towns. Japan doesn’t count.
As for Asian marketing content, it’s not like it doesn’t exist
As for Asian marketing content, it’s not like it doesn’t exist
While financial may be part of it, sometimes its a choice of what the money priorities are and here is an example the I saw when my kids where younger.
Mom drives kid to school (grade 1) in a Mercedes SUV because its -10C outside, she’s dressed to the nines, nicely bundled up, kid running shoes, t-shirt and jeans, complaining he's hungry no food for breakfast or lunch in house and cold. Happened on different occasions different parents and different kids, primarily one ethic group.
(Side note, we donated winter clothes to various kids as the need arose)
Sad part with this it explains the lack of access to sports as money is used for parents image versus ensuring the best for ones child. While my wife and I went through some hard times (we did without) our kids did not and where provide access to sports skiing included. Our priorities where our kids not some fancy cars and personal bling.
Great post SB! Here's a possible solution for everyone to digest, edit and play around /w. By no means is it finalized... this is an evolution in need of more ideas! Read this article. Focus on Step by Step: process #2.
I grew up in the Bronx. NYC has major problems w/ where to dump all the extra snow in winter. They generally plow it into the rivers. You coordinate w/ the City, take some of that snow and have the city dump it in the parks. You take the guys from Real Skifi and do City based exhibitions in the local parks in and around NYC and all over the country. Focus on areas Black, Latino, Asian, White and mixed. Use LOCAL knowledge for site choices or EVERYONE WILL GRAVITATE ONLY TO WHERE THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE... Downtown Manhattan is where they will all go. Battery Park is NOT the only park in NYC! To be honest that's one of the least comfortable places in NYC for minorities even though it's technically deemed multicultural. Look beyond the White comfort zones like downtown Manhattan and market this "Show & Tell" w/ the same energy the Industry as a whole, has put into Back Country.... BC anything and everything.... gear, clothing, etc..... FILM EVERYTHING and edit.... put to music a la
Realize that many of our cultures historically motivate through music much more than the mainstream. For example, drums were historically a way to communicate w/o slave holders understanding the message. The bass drum represents a heart beat.... more reading available online if you need to know more on that and how that has passed down through the centuries.
Check in w/ Nike and hire them as consultants at an organizational level (SIA, USSA levels) to utilize their local knowledge (coordinating w/ the cities, athletes, etc...) and vast experience in our communities, to focus and coordinate the groupings of companies and make the process as efficient as possible. Follow the lead of the NBS and group the smaller companies together into various travelling bands of marketing entities "invading" local parks.
The most difficult part will be companies holding each other accountable and pointing out non-participation. This serves to focus the dollars more efficiently to those companies that ARE participating and fosters a more competitive financial model. That type of focus holds weight w/in many minority communities. Try to open your focus to how communities of color are organized and how we work as the model is VERY different at times. That is where companies like Nike have on the ground expertise.......... again, "there is no spoon!"
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It happens all the time in all ethnic groups. Associating such ethics to one ethnic group can drive us to act, or not act, on the basis of an individual irrespective of that individual’s ethnicity, like how I had preconceptions and low expectations of my black ski school student, or like how my daughter’s prospects in racing was judged by big she was (she was average, so I think judged on how big a 8 year old Asian would become)
As it relates to marketing choices, again, if expectations are low on account of preconceptions, the marketing won’t get done. On the other hand, if we just look at hard data, like population and income, that will help eliminate bias from decision making
That, unfortunately, has become less and less of a problem.
I’m a bit skeptical about Nike wanting to participate in anything that promotes skiing to the black community. I think they’re doing just fine with the status quo
A bit of a thread drift, but we are on page 11.
Can you handle the truth?
The truth is we all discriminate, and race plays a part in that discrimination. It's not just human nature, it's nature and it's been known about by smart folk for centuries. "As the sage says, "Every creature likes its like" " (Thomas Aquinas circa 1250 AD)...I may be paraphrasing; my memory isn't as good as it I remember it once was. We like those who are most like us more than we like those who are different. Being of a different race makes people different.
How to combat that? Education - the gene that causes skin coloration doesn't make people as different as one might think. I am also much more like some of my friends of a different ethnic background than like some of the adze holes of my own ethnicity whom I despise.
Can you handle the truth?
We are all prejudicial. As we go through life, we learn and base our decisions at least partly on past experience.
If seven out of ten times a cop pulls over a car with green people in it there's trouble, and seven out of ten times a constable on patrol pulls over a car with blue people in it there's no problem, you can bet the approach will be different and harsher when he pulls over a car full of green people than when he pulls over a car full of blue people.
The best way to combat that aspect imho is to change the experience. It's harder to do in today's world due to media. Yes seeing stuff on social media or the news does not have nearly the same effect as experiencing it in real life, but quite often, especially in places where there is a lack of real experience (e.g. as shown up-thread where there are few black people - and much exposure to black people comes from media), if media consists of watching BLM rioters and looters on the news or social media, the experience is not so good. Social media is the worst, because it concentrates stuff, presenting fewer choices of what to watch based on what you've already watched. Do what you can to balance out the negative experience so often seen in social media with positive social media.
@karlo Can you handle the truth?
I was devastated when I learned that no matter how well I skied, I would never be as fast as a good skier who outweighed me by 100 lbs (at least in the DH where fast has true meaning
). Don't believe me? I dare you to find a light weight DH globe winner. Many places have two programs, one competitive and one pre-competitive. My elder children lucked out when they took the pre-competitive swimming lessons - the same coach who taught the competitive team taught them to swim very well (I couldn't afford the ski lessons).
Can you handle the truth?
The truth is we all discriminate, and race plays a part in that discrimination. It's not just human nature, it's nature and it's been known about by smart folk for centuries. "As the sage says, "Every creature likes its like" " (Thomas Aquinas circa 1250 AD)...I may be paraphrasing; my memory isn't as good as it I remember it once was. We like those who are most like us more than we like those who are different. Being of a different race makes people different.
How to combat that? Education - the gene that causes skin coloration doesn't make people as different as one might think. I am also much more like some of my friends of a different ethnic background than like some of the adze holes of my own ethnicity whom I despise.
Can you handle the truth?
We are all prejudicial. As we go through life, we learn and base our decisions at least partly on past experience.
If seven out of ten times a cop pulls over a car with green people in it there's trouble, and seven out of ten times a constable on patrol pulls over a car with blue people in it there's no problem, you can bet the approach will be different and harsher when he pulls over a car full of green people than when he pulls over a car full of blue people.
The best way to combat that aspect imho is to change the experience. It's harder to do in today's world due to media. Yes seeing stuff on social media or the news does not have nearly the same effect as experiencing it in real life, but quite often, especially in places where there is a lack of real experience (e.g. as shown up-thread where there are few black people - and much exposure to black people comes from media), if media consists of watching BLM rioters and looters on the news or social media, the experience is not so good. Social media is the worst, because it concentrates stuff, presenting fewer choices of what to watch based on what you've already watched. Do what you can to balance out the negative experience so often seen in social media with positive social media.
@karlo Can you handle the truth?
I was devastated when I learned that no matter how well I skied, I would never be as fast as a good skier who outweighed me by 100 lbs (at least in the DH where fast has true meaning
). Don't believe me? I dare you to find a light weight DH globe winner. Many places have two programs, one competitive and one pre-competitive. My elder children lucked out when they took the pre-competitive swimming lessons - the same coach who taught the competitive team taught them to swim very well (I couldn't afford the ski lessons).
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Exactly... This is a hurdle that requires negotiation, friendships, associations and playing to their sense of social responsibility, networking, connections, entertaining purchasing shares in.... etc.... endless opportunity here w/ Nike and corporations of that ilk. We are now striving to break the old stereotypical associations and look for opportunities where none existed before. This is how Industry Growth is fostered. Historically, this has been Nike's and corporate urban initiative's strength. That's power of negotiation. You have to start from a relentless point of "This will work" or else it's all for not.
As to the city snow thing........ watch the Real Skifi vids and the first thing you will notice is ........... not a lot of snow........ there's plenty of snow for the urban needs we are referencing. Clean up the snow that falls on sidewalks etc.... and re-direct the energy. There have been many times whereby my buddy in Manhattan and my cousin in Dumont get dumps that totally miss us here in VT. Snow saving tech is advancing... yes VERY optimistic but from where I'm looking...... this will happen.... It has to!
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That's it!........ How do you change the experience? You make friends, even online... and share experiences together. That builds common ground and enhanced mutual perspective. We move fwd together! That's what we try to do up here in Vermont w/ varying levels of success! That's what we are pioneering here on Pugski! These polite conversations have gone deeper than I could have ever imagined. Kudos to all of Us on here!
"Mills: From my personal experience, and from the people I’ve known for years, one thing that black women tell me is that ski pants don’t fit their figures. African American women who are skiers are constantly saying that ski pants are too narrow in the hips and too tight in the size. "
Another good point! Which is why I'm always on here touting some of the articulated snowmobile/outdoor (I used to be an avid snowmobiler and have guided trips in Quebec, VT and ME ) gear that tends to be much warmer than ski gear w/ newly comparable thickness quotients, fit our figures much better, and much more durable like;
https://www.klim.com/ and https://dsgouterwear.com/ for GF as she has hips and thighs. She raves about the fit, pricing and warmth. No.. NONE of the ads look like me on these sites but they have an important part of the fit equation down. I've spoken to the owner of DSG and she (yes started and owned by a woman! NICE! ) was happy that I reached out and pushed for more diversity in clothing fit. We have common ground there. That's how we start the process.
I'm even pimpn' Carhartt when I ski at the local farm as it's the only gear tough enough to withstand that level of immersion and abuse! It's either that or LOTS of Duct Tape.
Another good point! Which is why I'm always on here touting some of the articulated snowmobile/outdoor (I used to be an avid snowmobiler and have guided trips in Quebec, VT and ME ) gear that tends to be much warmer than ski gear w/ newly comparable thickness quotients, fit our figures much better, and much more durable like;
https://www.klim.com/ and https://dsgouterwear.com/ for GF as she has hips and thighs. She raves about the fit, pricing and warmth. No.. NONE of the ads look like me on these sites but they have an important part of the fit equation down. I've spoken to the owner of DSG and she (yes started and owned by a woman! NICE! ) was happy that I reached out and pushed for more diversity in clothing fit. We have common ground there. That's how we start the process.
I'm even pimpn' Carhartt when I ski at the local farm as it's the only gear tough enough to withstand that level of immersion and abuse! It's either that or LOTS of Duct Tape.
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It was before my time there, but I heard that there was actually a ski hill or two on Long Island. Maybe revive one of these places and dump snow there?
Long Island once had five ski areas
The Island at various times from the end of World War II until 1980 was home to commercial or municipal ski areas in Mill Neck, Old Bethpage, Huntington Station, Smithtown and Farmingville.
www.newsday.com
She was 8. As for whether or not I can take the truth, out depends who you ask
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Somewhere on here is a thread about the difficulties people face trying to fit big, small, wide, tall, short, and all other shapes that aren't "normal". Fit aside, getting anyone into skiing is tough without appropriate clothing. "No bad conditions, just bad clothes."
The resorts closest to me cater to the deep southeastern states. They rent pants, jackets, gloves along with the regular boots, poles, helmets, skis, and snowboards. But, ya, just having your own skis, poles, and boots only gets you about halfway to being geared up to ski.
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