On piste and mogul ski, I need some good knowledgeable advice.

Larry

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I was on the regular one in the second longest length. I weighed 150 lbs at the time. Groomer performance depends on where you set the bar. I wiĺ call it ok. As I said at the time, if I could have only one ski for Mr. Washington B.C, that would be it. Shortcomings as a groomer zoomer: it did not have as much ultimate grip (for high-g turns and quick stops) as the Blizzard Bonafide I tried the previous day; at speeds above 50 mph, it let you know that you had exceeded its design speed, feeling light and hyperactive, but nothing scary, at least until about 65 mph (all speeds estimated, I don't scare easily) which was about as fast as I skied that day. It did not have the reassuring feel of my antique Super G skis, and was a less at ease at those speeds than the Völkl 108 I had previously tried, but it sure stopped faster when applying the brakes, was more willing to get up on edge and had more grip than the Völkl 100-eight. It also had the ability to make precise looooong radius turns at stupid speeds that the stiffer Bonafied with its shorter radius did not. I was quite happy with its bump performance on Harry's Trees and Powderface (no powder - no snow for a week).
Thanks for the update. I'm also 150. I like my skis between 170-175. I'm upper int/adv. My top speed is about 45-50. My daily driver is blizzard bushwacker which is 88. I'm trying g to decide if I want to move up 92-98 daily driver or not.

I hate powder but enjoy skiing groomers. I'm more into quantity than Quality of snow
 

ScottB

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DrG,

What you learn in a mogul camp will make you a better skied every where. Don't worry about groomers versus moguls. You'll get a lot of ski suggestions. Narrow it down to 3 or 4 that appeal to you and then people who have skied then can give you their impressions. You kind of did that, but only a couple of skis on your list seem to fit what you list as your criteria

I have been on three skis on your list, if you want my 2 cents I would be glad to respond, just let me know

Keep in mind you fly to ski, so you really want a one or two ski quiver max
 
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ski otter 2

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@DrG , at Copper the past two years they now have one of the best performance demo ski fleets I've seen, at Center Village, the main lodge: unlimited skis at the same low price. That would be one good place to try many of the basic recommendations here and others. In my experience, their demos have very little wear, and are often new or almost new, as late as February and March. Very good edges. You might bring a small diamond 200 to 600 pocket file to take off any burrs that might have formed, though I've used mine maybe only one in three or four pairs of skis there. (At many demo places, I've often had to de-burr almost every ski.) Best of luck!
 

Wilhelmson

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Assuming you mean the Kastle, I own and love this ski but it is not a good choice for someone who self describes as not very good at bumps and wants to learn.

Edit: the Ripstick 86 looks like it might be fun for OP’s purpose though

Edit 2: the FX 85 might be a nice choice too, depending on OP’s groomer turns. Very easy in bumps. They’re not particularly inclined to get up on edge, but do stay there once convinced.
I just threw a few out there. I dont know op so cant recommend specifit ski for his needs. Assumed the kastle is more carvy - i only demoed for a few runs and wouldnt consider them forgiving. The fxs would be towards the other side of the spectrum.
 

Tony S

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I'm trying g to decide if I want to move up 92-98 daily driver or not.
I hate powder but enjoy skiing groomers.
The answer to your first comment is in your second comment. "No." I think most people, including me, would say that if groomers are your thing you should go narrower, not wider.
 
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DrG

DrG

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DrG,

What you learn in a mogul camp will make you a better skied every where. Don't worry about groomers versus moguls. You'll get a lot of ski suggestions. Narrow it down to 3 or 4 that appeal to you and then people who have skied then can give you their impressions. You kind of did that, but only a couple of skis on your list seem to fit what you list as your criteria

I have been on three skis on your list, if you want my 2 cents I would be glad to respond, just let me know

Keep in mind you fly to ski, so you really want a one or two ski quiver max
Thanks ScottB I’d love to get your thoughts and experience on the skis you’ve tried. Any suggestions or ideas are appreciated.
 

LiquidFeet

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The answer to your first comment is in your second comment. "No." I think most people, including me, would say that if groomers are your thing you should go narrower, not wider.
@Larry, I second this. On groomers you'll want to use your edges, especially if you like speed. Narrower waisted skis get up on edge easier and faster, and stay up with less acute body angles. You won't need the width on groomers for float. Under 80 waist might be ideal for you if your groomer snow is somewhat hard and it doesn't frequently bump up by end of day.
 

François Pugh

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Thanks for the update. I'm also 150. I like my skis between 170-175. I'm upper int/adv. My top speed is about 45-50. My daily driver is blizzard bushwacker which is 88. I'm trying g to decide if I want to move up 92-98 daily driver or not.

I hate powder but enjoy skiing groomers. I'm more into quantity than Quality of snow
If I had to only have one pair at My. Washington British Columbia it would be the 96, but I would much rather have a real carving ski and a deep snow tree ski, and decide on which one to take depending on my mood. The compromise ski gives up too much at both.
 

ScottB

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from the OP:

Here’s the list I’ve compiled so far, in no particular order.
- K2 Iconic 84 (TI?)
- DPS Cassiar A79 C2 Trainer
- Liberty V76
- Liberty V82
- ID One FRXP (www.idoneusa.com)
- Stockli Laser AX
- Fischer RC4 The Curve

Skis on the list I know well:

- K2 Iconic 84TI, 184cm: This is one of my favorite skis, I demo'd for 2 days, 2 years ago. They are great carvers and do a decent job as an all mtn ski. I almost bought this for my hard snow daily driver. They are much more carver oriented than all mtn, but can handle a little of everything. As far as moguls, I would only give them a C+. They are somewhat stiff and need to carve through moguls. I didn't think, "wow these are really easy in moguls", more like "these aren't bad, I can live with this". I classify myself as expert, so I can handle most skis in moguls. Don't buy these as your dedicated mogul ski, but they make a great groomer ski with some versatility. You would want a shorter length than I was on, 170ish would be better for you. These are no longer made (I think) so they won't be around for much longer.

- Fischer RC4 The Curve DTX, 178cm: This is one ski down on the performance scale from "the Curve" model. I own the DTX and had a demo run on the Curve. Basically these are serious dedicated carvers, low 70's mm width, and the DTX is a very light, lively ski (the Curve has a much heavier binding). If you wanted to beer league race, these are a good choice. For something to take into moguls, no way. I am a race coach and I use the ski for race training. It was mentioned about carving railroad tracks on groomers, these are the tools to do it. For coaching I like the slightly softer DTX, for running gates I would want the Curve model. These are cheater GS skis (between a slalom and GS ski). Since the DTX is softer, it can be taken into moguls, but its not its comfort zone.

- Stockli Laser AX, 183cm: I own this ski, I bought it as my daily driver instead of the Iconic 84TI. Its also a carving ski, although it is more versatile than almost any other carver. It has a decent amount of rocker and taper in its tip for a carving ski. This gives it the versatility along with its "cushiony" flex. It has a somewhat rounder tail as well. This ski is beloved by a lot of skiers on this forum and I would say it is the one "carver" on your list that can perform well as a mogul ski. I find them very good in moguls due to the tip and the softer flex. It still is a ski that wants to carve through moguls and not "slarve" them, but that can be a good thing if it fits your style. If you want to use it in moguls a lot, consider the 168cm length which saves weight and can be thrown around a lot easier. Its pricey and not a light weight ski, but its a burly powerful ski with a relatively (for a carving ski) forgiving flex. Personally, I haven't skied my AX very much and have been experimenting with binding mount position a lot. (this could be a blasphemy statement) but I haven't really bonded with this ski yet, even though it gets rave reviews from everyone else. I am not sure exactly why, except that it doesn't seem to give me the feedback I expect from a high performance ski. I think I am used to stiff race skis, so this ski is just not talking to me like I expect it to. I may need to learn to listen (or trust) better, or its just not the ski for me. The K2 Ikonic 84Ti spoke my language and I felt very comfortable with it. The AX is more versatile for sure, but maybe its so damp and cushiony I am not getting the sensations I expect from it. Its like it has two modes, Numb, forgiving mode, and kick ass burly mode, and I haven't figured out how to control which mode its in. It does have something called Turtle shell flex, and maybe that is what I have to get used to. Its got a lot of strengths and I will ski it a lot next season and expect to sort it out and have bonded or move on.


A bit of a ramble on my AX, sorry, but its unfinished business from this past season that I haven't put out of my mind yet. Back to you. I recommend you get a ski that is very good in moguls and decent to very good on groomers. My picks for you would be:

Blizzard Bushwacker (same as Brahma without metal, Brahama 82mm works too)
Nordica Navigator
Blizzard Rustler 9
Kastle FX 85
Liberty Evolv
Wendy's ski looks interesting with its twined tail, I don't know much about it, find a review
DPS the Trainer would probably be good too

There are others as have been suggested.
 
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Larry

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The answer to your first comment is in your second comment. "No." I think most people, including me, would say that if groomers are your thing you should go narrower, not wider.
Yes, I do have a groomer ski and even have an 88 but I'm looking for a wider groomer "type" ski around 96-98 for when im skiing places like mammoth and I want to go all over where I'll be on hard pack and soft stuff maybe up to 12". I prefer hard pack but when i dont have the groomer ski with me I want my "wider" ski to handle groomers ok but not great. I prefer lightweight lively type skis something like a Rustler 9, Elan 96, etc.
 

John O

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OP, I think you've gotten some great responses so far. I want to add my personal opinion to your thought process. You want a ski that's good on piste and in moguls. IMO, those are contrary goals, just like people who want a true one ski quiver. What makes a ski good on groomers is what makes a ski bad in moguls. Can you find one, pick one, that you believe hits the middle ground, is the holy grail of the OSQ? Yeah, maybe, but probably not. So decide now, do you want a bump ski that's ok on groomers, or the alternate?
 

LiquidFeet

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As a New England hard-snow skier who has been working on and improving my bump skiing these last years, I'll disagree with many here. You can get a good groomer ski, then improve your bump skiing technique so you can make that ski work there. The context of this suggestion is specific to NE skiing. Our bumps tend to be hard snow since we have our thaw-freeze cycles so often.
 
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DrG

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Y’all have given me some great advice, a lot to think about. Thx ScottB on your input, great info. I’m thinking it might be good for me to keep the waist width 75 to no more than 85 for a good frontside carver. I agree JohnO it does seem like a bit of conflicting goals regarding a carver/groomer and a mogul ski. So I would probably use this ski about 70-75% on groomers/carving and 25-30% moguls. I guess here’s where I am currently with my list. No particular order.
-ID One FRXP 78- My problem here is I can’t find any reviews and the only person I know, Wendy, that has one is selling it.
-Nordica Navigator 80/85
-Rossignol Experience 80
-DPS Cassiar A79
-Stockli Laser AX 78
-Liberty Evolve 84- I know nothing about, but I’ll do some research.
I’m open to suggestions. The Liberty’s V76/V82 seemed to be great carvers by reviews and opinions but maybe not so much for moguls especially at my level. Thank you, g
 

markojp

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No on the Rossi experience 80... its NOT a full sidewall ski... more of an entry level ski. In the experience family, the 84 would be better.
 
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DrG

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Tony S, I saw that you own a pair of Elan Wingman 82 CTi. It sounds like a pretty great pair of skis. Do you think that they are something that I should consider?
 

Tony S

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Tony S, I saw that you own a pair of Elan Wingman 82 CTi. It sounds like a pretty great pair of skis. Do you think that they are something that I should consider?
Yes.

They lean toward the carving end of the design spectrum rather than toward the all-mountain end. Which means they are not "easy button" skis in bumps (unlike the Kastle FX 85, which I also own and were mentioned a couple of times up thread). However, they are forgiving as groomer skis go. I am 5'7" 140lbs and am on the 172. At 160, I can imagine you on that size if you wanted to focus on bumps and short turns, or going up to the more obvious 178 if you wanted a little more stability at speed on the corduroy.
 

DocGKR

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"Personally, I haven't skied my AX very much and have been experimenting with binding mount position a lot. (this could be a blasphemy statement) but I haven't really bonded with this ski yet, even though it gets rave reviews from everyone else."
I generally like longer skis, but find the 175 AX works better than the 182 AX. I know it is sacrilege, but I actually like my 177 SC and 182 AR more than the 182 AX. One other thing, I have had to move all of my bindings on Stockli's forward about 1.5 cm to optimize performance and feel for me.
 
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DrG

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Thanks DocGKR. I’ve now heard or read this from a number of places regarding the Stockli AX, in addition I’ve heard/read that it (AX) skis longer than they are. Does that make sense to y’all? Longer effective edge?
The Liberty Evolv84 is a new ski coming out 20/21. It uses the same VMT core construction, it looks to be a bit more all-mountain probably a great carver but maybe a bit stiff for me and moguls.
That being said, I do want a ski I can progress on, not stay where I am.
 
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Wendy

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@Larry, I second this. On groomers you'll want to use your edges, especially if you like speed. Narrower waisted skis get up on edge easier and faster, and stay up with less acute body angles. You won't need the width on groomers for float. Under 80 waist might be ideal for you if your groomer snow is somewhat hard and it doesn't frequently bump up by end of day.
Yes to this, too. Here in the East, you have days when you hope to ski bumps, but they’re rock hard pyramids of ice. On other days, you might expect only icy groomers but be pleasantly surprised with some forgiving bumps. That’s why a ski that can do both reasonably well is important.
 

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