On piste and mogul ski, I need some good knowledgeable advice.

ScottB

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I second the Nordica navigator 85 suggestion Tony made. Seems ideal for an all around ski, not to stiff, and good in bumps. Can be had at great prices too
 

mdf

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I second the Nordica navigator 85 suggestion Tony made. Seems ideal for an all around ski, not to stiff, and good in bumps. Can be had at great prices too
As many of you may remember, I own and love the Navigator 85. It is moderately soft and great in bumps, while still having good edge hold on groomers. My one reservation is the tail --- I like it, but it has a real tail, not the kind described a few posts ago. Is that going to cause problems for a new-to-bumps skier?
 

Tony S

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There is a new pair on ebay for about $260.

Caveat - Make sure binding installer uses shorter screws. That ski is thinner than most others out there.
At that price a dedicated pair of bump skis is a no brainer. That is the easiest bump ski I've ever been on, btw.
 

ski otter 2

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Okay, from the other side of this, a ski that is very good in bumps can often be noticeably not so great carving on corduroy - okay, but noticeably not as good.

The skis on your initial list I've been on - the K2, the V76, the AX and the Curve - are all frontside skis first, variously doable in some bumps but not great, relatively. These are for folks who carve well and have a priority for frontside when on these skis; and enjoy the challenge of carving in some bumps. (I've heard the A79 is better than this in bumps, but haven't been on it.)

For me, skis that excel at bumps really stand out as much better - fall off a log easier, for example - in bumps than the skis above with frontside bias. Much. And it depends on if you are pivoting in bumps or carving more. If you could demo the ones on your list I've been on at least, and then, for example, got on a pair of Dynastar Menace 98s in bumps, a light bulb might well go off for you like it did for me: "Hey, this ski is dialed in for this," even though it is only okay when tracking/carving on piste.
 

markojp

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I second the Navigator 85.
 

Superbman

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I have the first gen. V82 and I wouldn't describe them as a great mogul ski--though they are not the worst mogul ski either. With the V series, the flex and the tail are actually great in Northeast Moguls-but the hammer style wide tip can catch you out in shark tooth moguls find: if you're not careful.

About a decade ago, there was a whole class of skis that were great all-mountain skis that were also mogul credible. The were well-made mid-fat twin tips like the Dynastar Troublemaker, classic Icelantic Pilgrim, Icelandic Nomad SKNY (85mm version) and the classic K2 Public Enemy (80mm-88 waist, modest sidecut, medium non-metal flex)). Though I've never skied it-I think maybe the Soul Rider 87 might approximate some of the attributes of those skis. The Dynastar Slicer/ Menace 98 is a good ski for big soft moguls, and if they made a similar shaped ski with the same construction in a 85mm waist-It'd be killer (the narrower Menace skis have a cheaper build unfortunately). Maybe the Liberty Evolv 85-fixes the tip issue of the V's and keeps the tail.

I have a few mogul ripping friend who have been pulverizing the Dynastar Cham 87's (skinnier/ non-metal end of the unfortunately much maligned Dynastar Cham skis) who swear by them and buy every eBay one they can find (the tip and extreme 'pin-tail' with touch o' and modest flex seems to be gold for them).
 
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DrG

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Hey everyone, thank you. This is why I joined the conversation on Pugski, you’ve given me a lot to think about. The good thing is I have time to decide. I understand this is the ”nth” time you’ve had this conversation, but I do appreciate your time and experience. I enjoy the give and take on anything ski related. If y’all have any other info, I’m listening.
One thing that comes to mind is that maybe I should spend more time improving my carving skills before I get too far out there with moguls, maybe that’s the priority. So more focus on a good on-piste ski. Not to mention the 20/21 skis will be out there soon.
Mounted for 295. I may sell them flat. it is a GREAT ski, hard to part with.
I do have one question of Wendy, if you don’t mind me asking. How come your selling the ID One FRXP?
 

zircon

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One thing that comes to mind is that maybe I should spend more time improving my carving skills before I get too far out there with moguls
So... I just want to comment on this part. I took a mogul clinic this spring before everything shut down. There was a wide variety of skill levels in my group, One skier had a racing background and got 100 days a year on snow and it showed. Another skier skidded z-shaped turns and didn't have a pole plant. All were able to have fun and learn something useful.

You absolutely do not need to improve your carving skills before you start on the moguls. Sure, at some level all skiing blends the same techniques and if there's something missing in your carving it will also be missing in your mogul skiing. BUT for most, these are different enough skillsets that you can work on them in parallel. And skiing moguls is different enough that it's worth working on—being a good on piste carver will not automatically transfer to moguls. Learn early and often!

And all mountain skis that are good on piste and good in moguls absolutely exist (the Navigator series that many smart people here have mentioned, for example).
 

LiquidFeet

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----Briefly, I’m a 63yo senager having a great time getting back into skiing.
----I’m 5’11”, 160lbs,
----advanced intermediate,
----in pretty good shape,
----looking to continue to learn and advance, but with good technique.
----I’m looking at taking a multi-day mogul camp next year, I think it will help me everywhere
----I primarily ski out west
----I enjoy moguls :eek:, but I’m not very good.....yet.
@DrG, as people give advice, they might be able to precisely pinpoint the type of ski you need if they know a little bit more about you and your skiing.

1. How many days a season do you get on snow?
2. You ski out west. Where? Will you likely return to any particular mountain repeatedly next season?
3. What do you like best about skiing groomers? Is it the speed, or something else?
4. Can you describe the types of moguls you plan on skiing? What about skiing moguls excites you?
5. What is your past history on snow? How did you learn to ski, and what kind of instruction/coaching have you had since you returned to skiing?
6. What have you been focusing on as you get reacquainted with the technical elements in skiing?
7. What skis are you on now?
 

Wendy

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í mínum huga er ég í vestri
Hey everyone, thank you. This is why I joined the conversation on Pugski, you’ve given me a lot to think about. The good thing is I have time to decide. I understand this is the ”nth” time you’ve had this conversation, but I do appreciate your time and experience. I enjoy the give and take on anything ski related. If y’all have any other info, I’m listening.
One thing that comes to mind is that maybe I should spend more time improving my carving skills before I get too far out there with moguls, maybe that’s the priority. So more focus on a good on-piste ski. Not to mention the 20/21 skis will be out there soon.

I do have one question of Wendy, if you don’t mind me asking. How come your selling the ID One FRXP?
Because I have other skis, that’s all. They are great skis. I am consolidating, and if somebody will use them more than I will, I will sell with bindings or flat. Make an offer! ;-) They don’t require effort to ski.
 

Larry

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I rented the Ripstick 96 for a day out on Vancouver Island two years ago. It was a nice compromise ski for a place that gets a lot of snow, skied in trees in deep snow, in bumps and on groomers, 96 instead of 86 due to the deep snow requirement. For what @DrG is looking for the Ripstick 86 would likely work well.
EDIT: at the time I weighed 150 lbs.
Was it the black 96 or the green one? I'm looking into that ski myself. Did it perform pretty good on groomers? Thanks
 

François Pugh

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Was it the black 96 or the green one? I'm looking into that ski myself. Did it perform pretty good on groomers? Thanks
I was on the regular one in the second longest length. I weighed 150 lbs at the time. Groomer performance depends on where you set the bar. I wiĺ call it ok. As I said at the time, if I could have only one ski for Mr. Washington B.C, that would be it. Shortcomings as a groomer zoomer: it did not have as much ultimate grip (for high-g turns and quick stops) as the Blizzard Bonafide I tried the previous day; at speeds above 50 mph, it let you know that you had exceeded its design speed, feeling light and hyperactive, but nothing scary, at least until about 65 mph (all speeds estimated, I don't scare easily) which was about as fast as I skied that day. It did not have the reassuring feel of my antique Super G skis, and was a less at ease at those speeds than the Völkl 108 I had previously tried, but it sure stopped faster when applying the brakes, was more willing to get up on edge and had more grip than the Völkl 100-eight. It also had the ability to make precise looooong radius turns at stupid speeds that the stiffer Bonafied with its shorter radius did not. I was quite happy with its bump performance on Harry's Trees and Powderface (no powder - no snow for a week).
 
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DrG

DrG

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@DrG, as people give advice, they might be able to precisely pinpoint the type of ski you need if they know a little bit more about you and your skiing.

1. How many days a season do you get on snow?
2. You ski out west. Where? Will you likely return to any particular mountain repeatedly next season?
3. What do you like best about skiing groomers? Is it the speed, or something else?
4. Can you describe the types of moguls you plan on skiing? What about skiing moguls excites you?
5. What is your past history on snow? How did you learn to ski, and what kind of instruction/coaching have you had since you returned to skiing?
6. What have you been focusing on as you get reacquainted with the technical elements in skiing?
7. What skis are you on now?
Great questions LiquidFeet. I’ll try and keep this brief and not waste anyone’s time.
1- Days/season- About 20 currently. Next season more, I have more time now.
2- A- Where- Telluride, Copper and Taos
B- I return to all of them regularly/yearly.
3- Best thing about groomers- I do enjoy the speed, but I really enjoy skiing them with good technique about as much. So both.
4- A- Moguls type- I’m not really sure about that. (I’m not gonna be doing zipper lines)
B- Why Moguls- It looks challenging and fun. I enjoy learning good techniques and applying it, seeing and feeling great results. Besides it will open up more of the mountain to me.
5- A- Past Hx- I was a late starter. Began mid/later 30’s thru mid 40’s. Then life took over, career, family, divorce etc. etc. etc..... Then about a 10+ yr hiatus. But, I’m back and loving it.
B- How learned- Hit or miss instruction with friends, occasional lesson basically one step forward two steps back. No focus, inconsistent. Maybe 5-7 days/season.
C- Instruction since returning- Multiple classes/camps and private lessons every year at all the above places mentioned in 2A. Now more focused. I’m a pretty quick study and enjoying it.
6- Focused on currently- I’m a science based guy so I enjoy knowing how things work. Breaking it down then putting the pieces back together.
-Learning proper technique and applying it.
-Balance in all condiirons.
-Staying fit with a ski emphasis.
-Skiing efficiently. I want to do this for as long as possible. I admire those guys and gals who are out there skiing well at 80, amazing.
7- Current skis- Salomon XDR TI 172, 130/88/113.
8- Goals- Open ended. I love learning and applying it. One goal is I want to be able to enjoy skiing the entire mountain. Other than that I’m just gonna see where I can go with this.

Thanks much, hope this helps. I appreciate your time and input.
 

LiquidFeet

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@DrG, thanks for all that info ... very helpful.

I looked up the Salomon ski you're on now. Below are some words from a Blister review found at https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2018-2019-salomon-xdr-88-ti. I gather from you've said in this thread so far that you are looking for a ski that will behave well in bumps as well as behave differently on groomers than this current ski. Knowing where you ski, your aspirations, and what you are skiing now may help people better pinpoint a ski for you.

And then there's that multi-day bump clinic you plan on taking. You say you ski at Taos. Have you considered a Taos Ski Week? There are many here who will sing its praises for teaching skiers to handle bumps.

"On soft groomers, the edge hold of the XDR 88 Ti is also pretty strong, but on harsh, frozen groomers, the low weight and stiffer flex pattern of the XDR 88 Ti make the ski scary at high speeds; all the heavier skis in this section offer much better suspension and less deflection in harsh conditions. So our recommendation is to consider sizing down to make it even easier to snap off quicker, shorter turns, as opposed to making fewer, faster turns. That will play to the strengths of the 88 Ti.
"Fans of lightweight skis may rejoice. Fans of excellent suspension, stability, and harsh, firm-snow-performance won’t. So whether you like or dislike the XDR 88 Ti will very much depend on the conditions and terrain you will be skiing most often. And our advice is to keep it on soft, smooth, consistent, and / or very forgiving snow.
"While the Salomon XDR 88 Ti is not the ultra-stable ski that the X-Drive 8.8 FS was, the XDR 88 Ti could work far better for intermediate skiers looking for a light, snappy ski to use while making tighter turns on groomers and forgiving snow."
 
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DrG

DrG

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Thank you, I have found that the XDR better on softer snow even some powder. It does feel a bit unstable on harder snow and can get pushed around on-piste.
I have been to Taos a number of times and taken private lessons. But you read my mind, because that is on my list of todo’s for next year. Along with a mogul camp and a class at Telluride. Looking forward to next year.
 

Tony S

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2- A- Where- Telluride, Copper and Taos
Yeah, you're going to want to ski bumps. Don't defer in favor of focusing only on groomer turns (reference to earlier post).

You have some choice ski areas there. Good taste, good fun.
 
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