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Oil Change Intervals / Dealership Recommended Intervals

Living Proof

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Our new Honda CRV has me wondering about the oil type and change frequency. Honda has something called Maintenance Minder that tells a percentage of oil life remaining. We had it at the dealer with 4000 miles, and, the service rep stated it has 60% of life remaning, so, that would mean a changeout would be around 10K , way too long in my opinion. Honda also advises using conventional oil, I've been a user/believer of synthetic. More concerning is the engine is a newer 1.5 L turbo design, by conventional standards, that is small for such a large car built on the Civic frame. My dealer owes me several free oil changes as a perk for buying, while they are nearby, it is a PITA to go through the wait times for this service, hardly worth it for minimal cost to get it done elsewhere. Oil service is a frequently discussed topic in the CRV forum, there is no consensus on best practice, still way to early in the life cylc.e of this engine to know anything conclusive. As we bought the extended Honda warranty, my thinking is I'll do oil changes around 6k, still undecided about regular vs synthetic.

BTW, Never been a believer is doing low mileage oil changes, modern engines almost never fail due to oil issues.
 

François Pugh

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Our new Honda CRV has me wondering about the oil type and change frequency. Honda has something called Maintenance Minder that tells a percentage of oil life remaining. We had it at the dealer with 4000 miles, and, the service rep stated it has 60% of life remaning, so, that would mean a changeout would be around 10K , way too long in my opinion. Honda also advises using conventional oil, I've been a user/believer of synthetic. More concerning is the engine is a newer 1.5 L turbo design, by conventional standards, that is small for such a large car built on the Civic frame. My dealer owes me several free oil changes as a perk for buying, while they are nearby, it is a PITA to go through the wait times for this service, hardly worth it for minimal cost to get it done elsewhere. Oil service is a frequently discussed topic in the CRV forum, there is no consensus on best practice, still way to early in the life cylc.e of this engine to know anything conclusive. As we bought the extended Honda warranty, my thinking is I'll do oil changes around 6k, still undecided about regular vs synthetic.

BTW, Never been a believer is doing low mileage oil changes, modern engines almost never fail due to oil issues.
I would use synthetic oil in a classic car, e.g. antique Dodge Superbee (or current SRT Deamon charger/challenger), but for a regular car, what's the point of having a running engine so you can spend a fortune on other repairs thirty years down the road? BTW my old Chevy wagon made it to 397,000 kms with regular oil at the owner's manual recommended oil changes.
 

Philpug

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Funny some of the comments in this thread and how contrary they are. If this was a "what car should I buy thread" it would be questioning how manufacturers just want to take your money with maybe options or packages you don't want. Now it is about maintenance and the manufacturers are telling you NOT to spend money on oil changes and to go longer and you are questioning it. I am confused. :huh::roflmao:
 

scott43

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I have also detected in some places this undercurrent of the mfg wants you to do less oil changes so your car blows up more often and you have to buy a new one sooner. Figure the logic in that one.. :rolleyes:
 

Philpug

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I have also detected in some places this undercurrent of the mfg wants you to do less oil changes so your car blows up more often and you have to buy a new one sooner. Figure the logic in that one.. :rolleyes:
Yeah, because THAT will want me to buy X brand again. ogwink
 

DanoT

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Yeah, because THAT will want me to buy X brand again. ogwink

Dano puts on his tin foil hat:
In my area and no doubt other parts of North America, the car dealer brand X,Y,Z, and others are all owned by the same company. So the "excessive oil change interval designed to prematurely blow up your engine" conspiracy goes a lot deeper than you think as it doesn't matter if you switch brands.:eek::D
 
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Wilhelmson

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I"ve had the opposite experience where the dealership wants to change the oil at 5,000 even though the computer (manufacturer) says I have 50% life left at that point (semi or full synthetic). They even wanted to do the differential every 7,500.

I think most dealerships would want to get you in there as often as possible rather than help you blow up your car, and there would be a recall or class action if the computer was designed to sabotage the engine.
 
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Wilhelmson

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Our new Honda CRV has me wondering about the oil type and change frequency. Honda has something called Maintenance Minder that tells a percentage of oil life remaining. We had it at the dealer with 4000 miles, and, the service rep stated it has 60% of life remaning, so, that would mean a changeout would be around 10K , way too long in my opinion. Honda also advises using conventional oil, I've been a user/believer of synthetic. More concerning is the engine is a newer 1.5 L turbo design, by conventional standards, that is small for such a large car built on the Civic frame. My dealer owes me several free oil changes as a perk for buying, while they are nearby, it is a PITA to go through the wait times for this service, hardly worth it for minimal cost to get it done elsewhere. Oil service is a frequently discussed topic in the CRV forum, there is no consensus on best practice, still way to early in the life cylc.e of this engine to know anything conclusive. As we bought the extended Honda warranty, my thinking is I'll do oil changes around 6k, still undecided about regular vs synthetic.

BTW, Never been a believer is doing low mileage oil changes, modern engines almost never fail due to oil issues.


Can't imagine them recommending conventional, maybe blend?
 

Living Proof

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I have also detected in some places this undercurrent of the mfg wants you to do less oil changes so your car blows up more often and you have to buy a new one sooner. Figure the logic in that one.. :rolleyes:

My daily driver is an '08 BMW (non turbo). In the BMW forums, many consider the BMW recommended 15,000 synthetic oil changes as far too infrequent. As BMW sells cars with a 60k mile full maintenance plan including oil changes, the skeptics state the BMW interval results in less costs for the extended warranty.

I agree with Phil's thought about all the conflicting opinion, normally, I stay far away from oil change discussions because we all have the truth regarding this issue.
 

scott43

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I"ve had the opposite experience where the dealership wants to change the oil at 5,000 even though the computer (manufacturer) says I have 50% life left at that point (semi or full synthetic). They even wanted to do the differential every 7,500.

I think most dealerships would want to get you in there as often as possible rather than help you blow up your car, and there would be a recall or class action if the computer was designed to sabotage the engine.
Dealer just wants your easy oil change cash..they don't care how long the car lasts..
 

Philpug

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Dealer just wants your easy oil change cash..they don't care how long the car lasts..
No, they want you in the door with the bait of an oil change, then to upsell you from there. If you came in for just an oil change, they barely break even on the transaction once they pay all the employees that are involded and the disposal of the fluids and filters.
 

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No, they want you in the door with the bait of an oil change, then to upsell you from there. If you came in for just an oil change, they barely break even on the transaction once they pay all the employees that are involded and the disposal of the fluids and filters.

Yup! It is the chance to upsell. ( or to get you into the showroom while you are waiting! ). I take my truck to the dealer for Oil changes because for $22 for the labor and filter it is worth it ( I supply the Mobil 1 myself). They always put a sticker on it showing due at 5k miles but I go with the OLI which usually trips around 7.5-8k. My last truck with the same engine used to go 9-10 k though.
 
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SpikeDog

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I do 5,000 mile oil changes on all my vehicles myself (currently have 9 of them). Mobil One synthetic and Motorcraft filters on everything except a Firebird WS-6. Sure, it might be too soon, but I grenaded the engine in my first car ('73 Celica ST) by never changing or even checking the oil. Stranded me in the middle of nowhere, cost me a bundle of cash and time, so I overcompensate ever since. I even have my own custom oil change stickers, where I keep track of date, mileage and how old my wipers are.
 

PTskier

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My '16 Mazda CX-9 turbocharged engine has a 7500 mile max oil change recommendation...with conventional oil in the turbo. I follow that, but I use synthetic due to the wider temperature range. It claims to have a monitor, but always comes to it's 7500 limit before the monitor says the conditions dictate the change.

My '17 Toyota Prius Prime plug-in hybrid has a totally stupid 10,000 mile or 1 year recommendation. Stupid, because the car can run about 30 miles full electric on the battery before the engine starts. There is no way to tell how many miles the engine has run. We're showing a total average mpg of 124 due to all the non-gasoline miles we have on the car.

The old '06 VW V-6 seized the engine at 50,000 even with oil changes every 5000, OEM oil filters, VW spec 5W-40 oil...never gonn'a be another VW product in this household.

The one year or other time based recommendation means little. Oil degrades extremely slowly when it just sits in an engine. It'll be fine for several years; I've seen the analyses. What does harm oil are short, cool runs or very hot runs. The algorithm based oil monitor systems take this into account very well.

Here's a listing of the U.S. oil Service Categories that shows the improvements over the years: http://www.api.org/products-and-ser...d-classifications/oil-categories#tab_gasoline
Every few years the engine makers, oil makers, and chemical suppliers to the oil companies get together to create the next, better standard. The U.S. has two bodies that work together, A.P.I., the American Petroleum Institute, and ILSAC, the International Lubricants Standards Approval Committee, which is both U.S. and Japanese engine makers. The GF- rating we see is ILSAC, and the SN rating for gasoline engine oil & CK-4 rating for diesel engine oil are API (S for service, C for commercial). In Europe the ACEA, Association des Constructeurs Européens d' Automobiles, sets their own standards.

Modern engines are machined better. Fuels, both gasoline and diesel, are cleaner with lower sulfur content. Modern fuel injection systems burn the fuel more cleanly. Oils get better every few years. All these are the reasons oils are living longer. 10,000 miles between oil changes in Europe isn't uncommon, but they require higher quality oil than most Americans will pay for. I've run top quality oils here for 10k with good lab analysis reports.

I'll disagree with Bill about engines creating dirt. I've reviewed many lab analyses of used engine oil, and the dirt, the insolubles, is always low unless there is a specific problem in that engine. Oil gets bad when the package of essential additives becomes depleted, mainly the detergents and dispersants. And when the polymer viscosity index improvers shear resulting in lower viscosity. And when the oil molecules oxidize (one requirement of syn oil is a resistance to oxidation), or when the oil has external contamination from antifreeze, fuel, or dirt from a poor air filter (high silica reading). And high insolubles (carbon) from bad diesel injectors.
 
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François Pugh

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No, they want you in the door with the bait of an oil change, then to upsell you from there. If you came in for just an oil change, they barely break even on the transaction once they pay all the employees that are involded and the disposal of the fluids and filters.
This has been my experience at the GM stealerships.

While doing the oil change they check the air filter. I suspect they don't take the time to disconnect the air intake hose, and instead, bend it. That could well be the cause of the holes deep in the pleats of the intake hose, leading to a lean burn condition (mass air flow sensor upstream of the holes). In retrospect this would account for the difference in sound coming from the engine compartment right after an oil change, which reminded me a lot of how the old GMC Sprint sounded when my brother flipped the lid on the air filter to provide a neater sound (and possibly more air). The engine light coming on as a result of the holes in the intake manual results in a visit to a different stealership while travelling. That stealership makes money on "diagnostics", then makes more money recommending a fuel injector cleaner. Of course the condition is intermittent, so yet another stealership makes more money when the light comes back on, and they get to tell me the light is due to engine cooling fan, which manages to burn itself out during the visit to check on the check engine light.

The stealership does not make any profit by attempting to charging $500. to replace the engine coolant fan; I replace it myself with parts from NAPA. Instead, my separated shoulder is healed enough so that I check out the car, find the hole and fix the problem with a $10 hose from Canadian Tire (eh?), not a $250 hose + brackets + mass air flow sensor module from GM.

The stealerships convinces me never to buy another GM product again.

On the other hand the Mazda dealership experience seems to be aimed at keeping me as a Mazda customer.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.
 

scott43

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Mr. Lube convinced my admin that she needed to change the transmission fluid on her manual transmission....
 

Philpug

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This has been my experience at the GM stealerships.

While doing the oil change they check the air filter. I suspect they don't take the time to disconnect the air intake hose, and instead, bend it. That could well be the cause of the holes deep in the pleats of the intake hose, leading to a lean burn condition (mass air flow sensor upstream of the holes). In retrospect this would account for the difference in sound coming from the engine compartment right after an oil change, which reminded me a lot of how the old GMC Sprint sounded when my brother flipped the lid on the air filter to provide a neater sound (and possibly more air). The engine light coming on as a result of the holes in the intake manual results in a visit to a different stealership while travelling. That stealership makes money on "diagnostics", then makes more money recommending a fuel injector cleaner. Of course the condition is intermittent, so yet another stealership makes more money when the light comes back on, and they get to tell me the light is due to engine cooling fan, which manages to burn itself out during the visit to check on the check engine light.

The stealership does not make any profit by attempting to charging $500. to replace the engine coolant fan; I replace it myself with parts from NAPA. Instead, my separated shoulder is healed enough so that I check out the car, find the hole and fix the problem with a $10 hose from Canadian Tire (eh?), not a $250 hose + brackets + mass air flow sensor module from GM.

The stealerships convinces me never to buy another GM product again.

On the other hand the Mazda dealership experience seems to be aimed at keeping me as a Mazda customer.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Dealerships are franchises and they take the que from the owners, not the manufacturers. Sounds like you have a bad GM dealer and a good Mazda dealer, I have also seen it the other way around.
 

François Pugh

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/oil-c...customers-marketplace-investigation-1.2418675
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/episodes/2013-2014/greasy-business
I took my wife's thirty-five year old Toyota Corolla to these guys.
First time I went for the up sale on the high mileage oil. I figured the chemicals expanding the oil seals was a good idea. I Don't know if the oil they put in was the high mileage oil or not. Everything was fine. Next time I just went with the cheapest oil that meant the owner's manual. Everything fine.

Third visit was a different story. I was shown transmission oil in a can that had way too much metal shavings. If my transmission was that bad, I would know it. I said, "Thank's; I'll let my wife know to start shopping for a new car.", and declined the transmission oil flush. The car had recently had the transmission oil changed (twice due to an error in record keeping by my wife). The car is still working fine 20,000 kms later.

I decided not to go back there. Advised wife to get oil changed at Costco, despite the more expensive fees for synthetic oil.
 
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