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Oil Change Intervals / Dealership Recommended Intervals

James

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Ha, typical. I've had one of those oil change shops tell me I "needed" a coolant change as it was too old. But I knew for a fact that my coolant was essentially brand new as I had a head gasket leak and would use like a gallon every 5,000 miles.
 

James

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The GF- rating we see is ILSAC, and the SN rating for gasoline engine oil & CK-4 rating for diesel engine oil are API (S for service, C for commercial).
Nice post! Except:
S= gasoline
C= diesel
I believe it's
'S' for spark ignition
'C' for compression ignition (diesel)

As for oils, if you have any overheating issues, go full synthetic. Little noticed was the whole Mobil 1 lawsuit against Castrol some years ago about the term "synthetic". I believe Castrol prevailed because the term is not at all scientific in how it's allowed. "Cracked" vs "synthesized" might be more accurate.
 

Bill Talbot

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My '16 Mazda CX-9 turbocharged engine has a 7500 mile max oil change recommendation...with conventional oil in the turbo. I follow that, but I use synthetic due to the wider temperature range. It claims to have a monitor, but always comes to it's 7500 limit before the monitor says the conditions dictate the change.

My '17 Toyota Prius Prime plug-in hybrid has a totally stupid 10,000 mile or 1 year recommendation. Stupid, because the car can run about 30 miles full electric on the battery before the engine starts. There is no way to tell how many miles the engine has run. We're showing a total average mpg of 124 due to all the non-gasoline miles we have on the car.

The old '06 VW V-6 seized the engine at 50,000 even with oil changes every 5000, OEM oil filters, VW spec 5W-40 oil...never gonn'a be another VW product in this household.

The one year or other time based recommendation means little. Oil degrades extremely slowly when it just sits in an engine. It'll be fine for several years; I've seen the analyses. What does harm oil are short, cool runs or very hot runs. The algorithm based oil monitor systems take this into account very well.

Here's a listing of the U.S. oil Service Categories that shows the improvements over the years: http://www.api.org/products-and-ser...d-classifications/oil-categories#tab_gasoline
Every few years the engine makers, oil makers, and chemical suppliers to the oil companies get together to create the next, better standard. The U.S. has two bodies that work together, A.P.I., the American Petroleum Institute, and ILSAC, the International Lubricants Standards Approval Committee, which is both U.S. and Japanese engine makers. The GF- rating we see is ILSAC, and the SN rating for gasoline engine oil & CK-4 rating for diesel engine oil are API (S for service, C for commercial). In Europe the ACEA, Association des Constructeurs Européens d' Automobiles, sets their own standards.

Modern engines are machined better. Fuels, both gasoline and diesel, are cleaner with lower sulfur content. Modern fuel injection systems burn the fuel more cleanly. Oils get better every few years. All these are the reasons oils are living longer. 10,000 miles between oil changes in Europe isn't uncommon, but they require higher quality oil than most Americans will pay for. I've run top quality oils here for 10k with good lab analysis reports.

I'll disagree with Bill about engines creating dirt. I've reviewed many lab analyses of used engine oil, and the dirt, the insolubles, is always low unless there is a specific problem in that engine. Oil gets bad when the package of essential additives becomes depleted, mainly the detergents and dispersants. And when the polymer viscosity index improvers shear resulting in lower viscosity. And when the oil molecules oxidize (one requirement of syn oil is a resistance to oxidation), or when the oil has external contamination from antifreeze, fuel, or dirt from a poor air filter (high silica reading). And high insolubles (carbon) from bad diesel injectors.


One thing you didn't hit on was the fact that some of the oil ' improvements' are only improvements as far as emissions go.
The heavy metals the used to help prevent cam lob wear and piston skirt scuffing among other high load locations have been removed strictly for tailpipe issues. Much like the beloved TEL was removed from gasoline despite its octane enhancement and exhaust valve seat 'buffer'.

Many air cooled aircraft and motorcycle engines still require both those things to survive and be reliable. This is why there is 100LL avgas and ethanol free leaded race gas and specialty oils with the 'good stuff' still in them. All that changes is not necessarily all good.

As to our engines creating dirt, perhaps I should have used the term carbon held in suspension. When your oil is no longer translucent and comes out black it is indeed dirty.
 

James

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Much like the beloved TEL was removed from gasoline despite its octane enhancement and exhaust valve seat 'buffer'.
Beloved by whom? Idiots?
DDT was beloved by some too I'm sure. So was Agent Orange.

The dangers of lead just get worse as time goes on. It destroys brains especially in kids. We're lucky they had to get rid of it for catalytic converters. It's good we're not still poisoning the soil with lead in the exhaust.

Aviation piston engines are basically relics from the 1930's. It's sad no one has designed a modern one but I guess liability concerns prevent it.

Algeria, Iraq, North Korea, and Yemen still have leaded gasoline.
 
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cantunamunch

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Anyone ever wonder what their oil so-called "sensor" actually senses?

Would you be as confident in your sensor "reading" if you knew that some oil change indicators simply do a capacitive level check and then count the number of cylinder fires since last oil change *cough*GM*cough* and then plug that into an oil circulation model?

Certainly there are sensors for oxidation level, for temperature tracking, for viscosity, for redox potential, for pH, for dielectric coefficient, for total acid number (TAN), for water content, for conductivity (not the same as pH or dielectric coefficient!), for ferrous contamination, and so on...but what does the one actually installed in your vehicle measure (or count)?
 

scott43

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They don't sense anything really..they just look at engine paramters..starts, stops, driving time, temps..and guess at the life left. However..for 95% of the population, probably better than them forgetting for 3 years and driving with the Oil light on for 3 days..oh it happens! :roflmao:
 

cantunamunch

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They don't sense anything really..they just look at engine paramters..starts, stops, driving time, temps..and guess at the life left.

That is exactly my point - the overwhelming majority behaves like that though there are some that actually do measure all the parameters I listed.
 

scott43

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Remember the days when you'd see cars burning oil and and hearing rod knocks? Never see that anymore..I'm sure there are lots of people who don't even change oil and those cars go 200,000 miles..I'm looking at you Nissan Maxima!
 

cantunamunch

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Remember the days when you'd see cars burning oil and and hearing rod knocks? Never see that anymore.

Dude, I just spent 3 days cycling and skating around (as in: trying to avoid the crowds and closures) Rolling Thunder. Every effing hotrod in the parade or being driven around was like that - and my throat burned to prove it.


..I'm looking at you Nissan Maxima!

Hah. Sure, but the injector coil packs are a completely different story...as I know first hand.
 

scott43

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Dude, I just spent 3 days cycling and skating around (as in: trying to avoid the crowds and closures) Rolling Thunder. Every effing hotrod in the parade or being driven around was like that - and my throat burned to prove it.
One of the Car and Driver writers returned to Ontario Motor Speedway or Riverside out in California just before it closed down. He'd lived in LA and regularly made the drive out of the LA basin into the mountains to get to the track. Except this time, 30 years after he had been racing there in the 60's, was different. His eyes and throat weren't burning and there was much less orange haze over the LA basin in the valleys. Just makes you think...
 

Uncle-A

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I jumped on this thread because it was the closest I could find on the subject.
Just did an oil change on my old truck and for the first time I went with the High Mileage synthetic blend. I used a full synthetic years ago and was not happy as it was so thin every time I checked the oil it seemed low and had to add a quart. Has anyone in the community had an issue with the synthetic as far as going through it very fast?
 

Bill Talbot

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Use the monitor...5000 miles with synthetic is too often...that's the whole point of synthetic..

That is the selling point of synthetic. Problem is, even if the additive package in the oil is still good it's just as dirty as if it was a lessor oil. I want to change it to get that out. And don't even start on me with the OEM filters. IF you ran a real 100% filtration set up like what is used on many race cars a longer interval could likely be had. When in doubt, do and oil analysis and see what the lab says. Mine is usually within the final 10% on it's life by 5k in my turbo'd Subbie.
 

cantunamunch

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I used a full synthetic years ago and was not happy as it was so thin every time I checked the oil it seemed low and had to add a quart. Has anyone in the community had an issue with the synthetic as far as going through it very fast?

Not without it actually leaking - or burning oil.

The one time it was neither on the driveway nor smoking the tailpipe, it was leaking onto the exhaust *and* burning there. This turned out more bad than either of the obvious scenarios.
 

Uncle-A

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Not without it actually leaking - or burning oil.

The one time it was neither on the driveway nor smoking the tailpipe, it was leaking onto the exhaust *and* burning there. This turned out more bad than either of the obvious scenarios.
I think it was leaking but never found a spot on the driveway. I started to use the Mobil 1 at the first oil change of a brand new vehicle. It was very thin and should have been without any leaks yet always had to add a quart in under 1K miles. Than after a few years of that I just switched back to conventional oil and it was better but by then it may have been too late. Well now I am trying the High Mileage Blend in my old truck and will see what happens. Thanks for sharing your experience.
 

DanoT

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Synthetic oil has a superior cold temperature pour rate, meaning it flows better in cold weather, compared to mineral oil. This is an aid to cold temp engine starting. It also means that in an older engine where the seals may not be sealing like they once did, that slippery synthetic can get by the seals.
 

DanoT

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And don't even start on me with the OEM filters.
As a Toyota guy, I can tell you that Toyota filters are preferred. There are also a lot of other Toyota/Denso parts that are superior to the aftermarket.
 

pchewn

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I have a Kia Niro plug-in hybrid. Some of the miles are electric powered, some are gas powered. If I'm doing short trips, the gas engine doesn't even run, yet the miles are racking up.

So what's the point of changing my oil in XXX miles if 1/2 of those miles are electric powered?

I keep a spreadsheet of miles, gallons, MPG.

So now I schedule my oil changes based on how much fuel I've burned -- which is a much better indicator of engine wear (for a plug-in hybrid) than either time or miles. In my case, if I'm running the car in hybrid mode and not charging it that results in about 50 MPG. So I get the oil changed after 200 gallons (10,000 gas-miles equivalent), even if the odometer tells me I've traveled 15,000 miles.
 

raytseng

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I jumped on this thread because it was the closest I could find on the subject.
Just did an oil change on my old truck and for the first time I went with the High Mileage synthetic blend. I used a full synthetic years ago and was not happy as it was so thin every time I checked the oil it seemed low and had to add a quart. Has anyone in the community had an issue with the synthetic as far as going through it very fast?
Synthetic in the US is now a marketing term, and it doesn't mean anything anymore. Conventional is just as "synthetic" as synthetic is "synthetic" these days so the terms have become meaningless. Even the technicalities of the oil base are meaningless as it compares to actual results and behavior. Such is the power of chemical/industrial engineers to perform modern day alchemy.

So it's less about the "high mileage synthetic blend"-ness of the oil that caused your dissatisfaction, but more about the exact specific product you used.

You cannot make too many generalizations about synthetic vs conventional anymore on how it's going to be in your specific case.

It would be like saying I demo'ed a pair of yellow skis, and they were slow, so I don't ski yellow skis anymore.
Even among brands, using 1 product to represent a whole product-line is like saying I took out a pair of rossi skis they were terrible, so I don't use rossignol skis anymore

Within a product line though, the offerings labeled "synthetic" are going to be the premium offerings and have better stability and other metrics, but just within that specific product line.
 

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