Not New, but certainly felt that way yesterday at Park City

[BillyGoat]

I didn't start skiing until I was 48-49. I'm 6' about 200lbs, and reasonably active... spent an early season on the bench from an ACL (playing hoops) but I was hooked. I was getting as many ski days as possible in around 15-20 all on East Coast mountains. So, At this point I consider myself an Advanced Intermediate in the morning, and drop down to intermediate in the afternoon once my knee and quads start whimpering.

I went to Park City for 3 days .... had a great time on mostly groomers. I've never learned how to navigate moguls or tracked up snow with a lot of uneveness. Last day, PC got 7-8 inches and I felt like a total beginner. I usually take a lesson every trip I take, but I always have ended up on groomers more being taught how to be a better carver. I got to the point where I was wanting my ice runs since I know how to deal with that.

How do I learn how to deal with mounds of snow and powder without taking out another ACL?? I was constantly either in the backseat, or when I tried to take a more active carve-like stance I'd end up too far over my skis. I'm now 58, and feel like I can't progress any further without spending gobs of $$'s on lessons. Very unsure it's worth a week at a place like PC, that's for sure.

thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Seldomski]

What skis and boots are you using? If you cannot comfortably stay forward, it could be that your boots or skis are too soft. And/or your boots are too upright.

If you want to progress your skills, you will need to take more lessons. Ideally multiple days of lessons in a row. There are some places that are good for skiing and others that are good for lessons. Look for multi day "ski camps" or clinics and plan a trip around that.

There are also things you can do in the off season in the gym to improve balance and flexibility/range of motion. Improvements there will help a great deal when you are back on your skis.

 

[fatbob]

Something wrong with your technique or set up if you can't transfer good carving technique to fresh snow. Sometimes fresh snow isn't a joy: temperature or moisture or traffic can make it mound or clump or otherwise get set up. But barring injuries that preclude skiing on anything other than the smoothest base it should be something to eagerly anticpate rather than dread.

 

[mister moose]

Tell us more about what being too far forward felt like.

If you've been avoiding tracked up snow and moguls, your skiing versatility will be less. 8 inches isn't that much snow unless it's late season high moisture heavy snow. I suspect your core isn't used to the many changes required on uneven snow to stay centered. I'd also guess that while you're practicing carving, there's still a lot of skidding going on, and skidding in uneven snow is work. Difficult work if you're not used to it.

Stormchase a little next season. Ski with skiers better than you, or take a few lessons on loose snow days. Make a point of skiing several 4-6 inch storms, don't wait for the 18 inch major dump.

 

[KevinF]

What sort of things are your instructors teaching you when you do take lessons?

Ice, groomers, firmer conditions, etc. make one thing very easy -- you can push your skis anywhere you want and they will slide in the direction they're being pushed. Doing that works reasonably well... until there's something in the way that resists that push, such as moguls or 8" of new fallen snow.

You aren't alone; the majority of the skiing public struggles greatly in powder snow or moguls.

Skis can act like a spreader knife (i.e., sliding across the snow) or act like a carving knife (slicing through the snow). You want the latter -- you want that ski slicing through snow, at which point you won't care about zero inches or twenty inches of snow. Your legs won't be tired at mid-day.

Posting some video would help suggest a specific skill to work on. You might want to look into a mutli-day ski camp as well; an immersive multi-day experience can help more than a single lesson here-and-there.

 

[mdf]

when I tried to take a more active carve-like stance <it didn't work>

Skis can act like a spreader knife (i.e., sliding across the snow) or act like a carving knife (slicing through the snow). You want the latter -- you want that ski slicing through snow, at which point you won't care about zero inches or twenty inches of snow. Your legs won't be tired at mid-day.

I agree with Kevin. If your bad experience keeps you on a flat ski, it magnifies the variations in the snow. Things will go from bad to worse. Figure out why "on edge" isn't working for you.

 

[BillyGoat]

Tell us more about what being too far forward felt like.

If you've been avoiding tracked up snow and moguls, your skiing versatility will be less. 8 inches isn't that much snow unless it's late season high moisture heavy snow. I suspect your core isn't used to the many changes required on uneven snow to stay centered. I'd also guess that while you're practicing carving, there's still a lot of skidding going on, and skidding in uneven snow is work. Difficult work if you're not used to it.

Stormchase a little next season. Ski with skiers better than you, or take a few lessons on loose snow days. Make a point of skiing several 4-6 inch storms, don't wait for the 18 inch major dump.

Thanks all!!... I am sure my technique is very suspect. Yesterday, I had a hard time in the transition among the uneven snow mounds. So, I always try to have my core facing downhill and generally a "ready position" as I call it as it reminds me of the stance for basketball. My skis are generally should length apart, but sometimes a bit more. My downhill ski has my shin pressed against the tongue, and my toes are crouching (not sure why) with my big toe very engaged; my uphill edge of the down hill ski is more engaged - tilted? .... a lot of sliding down hill versus skiing yesterday for control and fear of lie.... For the transition, I would try to stay crouched, release my crouched toes, roll my ankles and engage the toes and shin. I often found myself "hopping" to make the turn. If there was a big mound that I would hit post-transition that I wasn't prepared for, I usually bailed out and just sat down against the hill after once pitching forward for a faceplant.

My boots are the most comfortable I have ever had - Dalbello Panterra 100 and I had rented Nordinca Enforcers that were about 167 and 100 under foot.

thanks for the feedback.

 

[BigSlick]

Sounds like your skis are way too short and your boots are too soft. At your height and weight, a 120 flex boot and ~180 cm ski would be much more supportive. And, a few off-piste lessons as previously suggested.

 

[Mendieta]

Thanks all!!... I am sure my technique is very suspect. Yesterday, I had a hard time in the transition among the uneven snow mounds. So, I always try to have my core facing downhill and generally a "ready position" as I call it as it reminds me of the stance for basketball. My skis are generally should length apart, but sometimes a bit more. My downhill ski has my shin pressed against the tongue, and my toes are crouching (not sure why) with my big toe very engaged; my uphill edge of the down hill ski is more engaged - tilted? .... a lot of sliding down hill versus skiing yesterday for control and fear of lie.... For the transition, I would try to stay crouched, release my crouched toes, roll my ankles and engage the toes and shin. I often found myself "hopping" to make the turn. If there was a big mound that I would hit post-transition that I wasn't prepared for, I usually bailed out and just sat down against the hill after once pitching forward for a faceplant.

My boots are the most comfortable I have ever had - Dalbello Panterra 100 and I had rented Nordinca Enforcers that were about 167 and 100 under foot.

thanks for the feedback.

So, a few thoughts:

Equipment:

• That boot flex (100) might be too soft for you at your size (we are similar sizes btw). They might be a bit big if you asked the boot fitter for comfort.
• I have those skis. They are massive, and "enforcers" truly at that width. The Enforcer 94or even 88 might have been a better choice, and as pointed above, easier to put on edge on variable snow.

Technique:

• Have you taken any lessons on bum/ mogul skiing? If the answer is NO, that there is needed a t your stage. There are two fundamental movements in skiing: a clean carve, and a clean pivot. Keeping improving carving won't sub for the other. So, just tell the instructor you want to improve on bumps.

Terrain:

• Do you ski off-piste? Meaning, outside groomed snow? If the answer is NO, you might want to start stepping outside, little by little. You can't do it when it's icy though. Just step outside a groomer and come back. Traverse between adjacent groomers, etc.

Have fun out there, and try to take trips out west and ski softer snow, or do it in the East before they close, with spring snow. If you come to Tahoe, hit me up and we can make some turns together. Cheers!

 

[Tony Storaro]

I didn't start skiing until I was 48-49. I'm 6' about 200lbs, and reasonably active... spent an early season on the bench from an ACL (playing hoops) but I was hooked. I was getting as many ski days as possible in around 15-20 all on East Coast mountains. So, At this point I consider myself an Advanced Intermediate in the morning, and drop down to intermediate in the afternoon once my knee and quads start whimpering.

I went to Park City for 3 days .... had a great time on mostly groomers. I've never learned how to navigate moguls or tracked up snow with a lot of uneveness. Last day, PC got 7-8 inches and I felt like a total beginner. I usually take a lesson every trip I take, but I always have ended up on groomers more being taught how to be a better carver. I got to the point where I was wanting my ice runs since I know how to deal with that.

How do I learn how to deal with mounds of snow and powder without taking out another ACL?? I was constantly either in the backseat, or when I tried to take a more active carve-like stance I'd end up too far over my skis. I'm now 58, and feel like I can't progress any further without spending gobs of $$'s on lessons. Very unsure it's worth a week at a place like PC, that's for sure.

thanks for your thoughts.

The simple answer to this is: you need to ski more the stuff you suck at skiing. There is no substitute for days on actual snow.
I can absolutely relate here-when I spend days and days and days skiing icy and hard snow and i feel confident to the point of arrogance and all of a sudden I get 30 cm of fresh snow the first couple of runs are always What The Effing Eff man, can I ski at all?
And then it gets better with practice.

 

[James]

So, I always try to have my core facing downhill and generally a "ready position" as I call it as it reminds me of the stance for basketball.

So you are always facing downhill?
It is likely you are contorting yourself in unnecessary positions.
If you are doing short turns in the fall line, then the body will face downhill. Otherwise, no. This is a common misunderstanding that can get perpetrated by some drills.

. For the transition, I would try to stay crouched, release my crouched toes, roll my ankles and engage the toes and shin. I often found myself "hopping" to make the turn.

What are “crouching” toes? Do you mean curled, scrunched? That would be not good as it locks up your ankle and thtows off balance. Often a classic sign of boots too big.

 

[Tony Storaro]

What are “crouching” toes? Do you mean curled, scrunched? That would be not good as it locks up your ankle and thtows off balance. Often a classic sign of boots too big.

Nah, been there done that- a sure sign of off fore/aft balance. I was the same at one point. Bet he is in the backseat in this moment.

 

[fatbob]

Technique:

• Have you taken any lessons on bum/ mogul skiing?

No one takes lessons on bum mogul skiing, they just grab some skis outta the skip, pull on a 80s shell from the thrift store, roll a blunt and giv'er. Before tailgating some PBR.

 

[Bad Bob]

Skiing is reacting. Watch a video of a good skier skiing bumps or loose snow, look closely. They are continually reacting to the surface resistance. There is a ton of micro adjustment; they hit a bump and their weight shifts back very slightly to resist the impact, they clear the resistance and it shifts forward in preparation for the next snow pile. Turning in these conditions adds a big basket full of other balance adjustments.
This all sounds really hard to learn. Well it isn't, you have done this your whole life; you adjust your balance every time you move. You do it by feel, not sight normally.
Now take it to the ski hill. New skills are learned on gentle terrain and go to more challenging places as they develop; same thing here. Start straight running and traversing through the chop (don't look at it, do it by feel; look ahead. In those videos you will also notice the good skiers do not look at their skis.) Add some turns down there so you are shifting weight and direction. Now to the blues and do these drills some more. When you get this it will be an AW HAA moment.
When things don't feel right, or I want to work on adjustment skills I will often ski right along the grooming line doing some turns on the groomer linked to some turns in the chop or bumps (this gives you a bailout just one turn away if you need it).
Very helpful tip--- zip all of your pockets before you go play like this.

 

[Seldomski]

my toes are crouching (not sure why) with my big toe very engaged

My wife used to do this before she had boots that fit tightly to her foot. It was instinctive reaction to the foot moving around in the boot - her foot was trying to 'grab' onto the boot. Being able to curl your toes very likely means your boots are too big. Coupled with statement below:

My boots are the most comfortable I have ever had - Dalbello Panterra 100

I am pretty sure you need to see a boot fitter and think about getting new boots. One quick check you can do is remove the liners from the boots you have now and put them on. If you jam your toes into the front of the boot, how much room is left behind your heel? If you can get more than 1-2 fingers (.5 to 1") into the gap behind your heel, the boot is too long. It could also have too much volume as well. Alternatively measure your foot in cm and check the size on the boot (mondo point). The numbers should be very close to one another.

You probably have some technique issues as well, but if you want to improve as rapidly as possible, the boots probably need a hard look. A sloppy boot fit will make it very hard to control the ski properly.

 

[mdf]

The toe thing can also be anxiety. Your subconscious is grabbing a hold the only way it can.

 

[1Turn2Many]

Lessons are great but skiing is what makes you better at skiing. Bump your 20 days a year up to 100 and life will be spectacular.

 

[James]

Nah, been there done that- a sure sign of off fore/aft balance. I was the same at one point. Bet he is in the backseat in this moment.

Don’t know where you’ve been, but “crouching” is not used with toes commonly in American English. It’s used for the whole body. At least East of the Mississippi.
Seems some here use it, so go figure. Never in my life have heard it.

curled, clenched, clawing, scrunching

Clenching toes is common with stress.

$ to donuts, those “comfortable” boots are one shell size too big.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Don’t know where you’ve been, but “crouching” is not used with toes commonly in American English. It’s used for the whole body. At least East of the Mississippi.
Seems some here use it, so go figure. Never in my life have heard it.

curled, clenched, clawing, scrunching

Clenching toes is common with stress.

$ to donuts, those “comfortable” boots are one shell size too big.

I know what crouching is, he meant curling/ clenching them and it is a combination of off balance and anxiety. I was doing that in perfectly fitted boots in the past.

 

[Henry]

"drop down to intermediate in the afternoon once my knee and quads start whimpering."
A strong sign that you're sitting back even when you don't know it.

"How do I learn how to deal with mounds of snow and powder without taking out another ACL?? I was constantly either in the backseat, or when I tried to take a more active carve-like stance I'd end up too far over my skis."
I agree with the comments above in posts 5 & 6. And, the boots are soft for you, and the skis short/soft, but that should make things easier if you're not hammering the hill too hard. For boot size, "shell-fitting" has you remove the liner, put your foot in with the toes lightly touching the end, and you want no more than 5/8 to 3/4" of room at the heel and 2 to 3 mm of room on the sides when you peel the foot flaps back.

We need a video of your skiing on a moderate run where you do OK. And on a run were you don't do so OK. Stance is always the first thing to work on. Try your feet walking width apart where you body has been balancing itself since you were a year or so old. Try to stay loosely on the balls of your feet all the time, except maybe at the end of turns you can get to centered, never back on your heels. Make some easy runs just concentrating on the feeling of where the pressure is on the soles of your feet. Never heavy on the inside foot. Never back on the heels. When you are balanced on the ball of your outside foot note how much you feel your shin against the cuff. That's your gauge to known when you're in balance. If you need to struggle to get here, you need a boot alignment job from a good fitter.

Now look to some youtube videos about beginning carving, about rolling your skis on edge so those skis slice through the snow like a carving knife, not pushed sideways against the snow like a butter knife. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=carving+skiing+technique+for+beginners (Some of these are of different levels; start easy and work your way up.)

For moguls, a couple of things. Don't get back on your heels. Don't lean toward the hill. Either one and you're doomed. Stay on the balls of your feet balanced over your skis. Keep your arms loosely a bit out and a bit forward for balance. As you crest over a bump strongly pull both feet back to bring your ski tips down to the snow. Rule of thumb...if your ski tips are in contact with the snow you have the opportunity for control. Start small. If the bumps & ruts are small use the sides of the bumps and ruts like a race car goes around a banked track; use the banking to turn on. If the bumps are a bit bigger practice a curving sideslip down the side of them. Always balance as described above. Practice, practice, practice.