Nice turns on firm snow, and steep

Discussion in 'Ski School' started by Rod9301, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    IMG_5779.JPG
    Of course he's braced, he's not moving. Since these aren't flowing turns, it's completely different to intermediate bracing. I think that's @JESinstr point- there's flowing turns or these. The former will have you doing 50mph in two turns and likely death. (One could argue that gs skiers brace on the outside leg when they're low)

    Redirection can't possibly start with the foot when there's a 45+ degree slope in the way of the tail.
     
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  2. Thread Starter
    TS
    Rod9301

    Rod9301 Getting off the lift Skier

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    What do you mean by this?
     
  3. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    He can't start the turn by just tipping the downhill braced foot obviously- he'll slip. He can't just turn the foot/lower leg in the new direction - the tail hits the snow. He has to get the body to start going downhill, shorten the downhill leg before turning foot/leg, (for clearance), lengthen the uphill leg then shorten it. Everything has to be clear before it can rotate.

    Or hop, which involves all of the above pretty much but with legs so separated by the slope I guess it's a really a so called bicycle turn.
     
  4. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    This clip from Chamonix has some of the same turns. Different camera perspective gives a better sense of technique and steepness. Some shots are just crazy. And sickening. Stepping over rocks on insane pitches. Yikes!



    This clip has extended shots of the above with some subtitles. 2:10 on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  5. 4ster

    4ster Now with more photos! Instructor

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    I like the New School approach of switch belay :eek: !
    5A50256C-E807-40D9-BA4E-D3341FD70938.jpeg

    Here’s one of the Old School guys demonstrating that not a lot has changed...
     

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  6. Coach13

    Coach13 Out on the slopes Skier

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    I guess this will. highlight my intermediate status and lack of high level skiing knowledge but I’m not sure how you critique the skiing in some of these videos. In my mind, the skiers simply being able to employ the tatics to descend these runs indicates a high level of skill.
     
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  7. geepers

    geepers Getting off the lift Skier

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    Train for steeps in the safety of your own home...

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Bolder

    Bolder Getting on the lift Skier

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    I'd have straightlined that face...:philgoat:

    Serious control in what looks like rock-hard boilerplate. I "get" that kind of skiing, like the Polish guy who just "skied" down K2, but it's not really aesthetically pleasing. One of the tenets of mountaineering is to do things in the appropriate style, i.e. don't force the mountain to give you something that's not there. I'm not articulating that very well but there are probably some purists who would say that it wasn't a day for skis.
     
  9. Josh Matta

    Josh Matta Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    I dont get that pole grip at all....
     
  10. Mike King

    Mike King AKA Habacomike Instructor

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    poles are too long...
     
  11. Thread Starter
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    Rod9301

    Rod9301 Getting off the lift Skier

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    I don't either.
    The idea is that you slide the uphill have down the pole, so you don't end up with the uphill have way high.

    I would like to try them, it makes some sense.

    I'm afraid i would drop one when i fall.

    On the other hand, if i fall in steep terrain, dropping a pole is the last thing i would worry about.
    But i could use my pole to slow down and orient myself feet first if i fall.

    Complicated.

    A lot of steep skiers in Europe use these.
     
  12. 4ster

    4ster Now with more photos! Instructor

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    I couldn’t really see the grip at first but at second glance it could be a Whippet. It is a device used in ski mountaineering for self arrest, like an ice ax attached to the pole grip.
    FB8F9B93-FDC2-4929-BD51-205F39BE5AE9.jpeg

    Good for Yeti encounters too!
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
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  13. geepers

    geepers Getting off the lift Skier

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    Looks freakn dangerous. :eek:

    Was wondering how they'd build fear factor into that steeps simulation. Now we know...
     
  14. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    Are you talking about the skier's hand gripping the pole or the physical grip?
     
  15. Mike King

    Mike King AKA Habacomike Instructor

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    Perhaps the grip is so you have a better chance of using the pole to self arrest if the turn fails?



    Mike
     
  16. Tom Holtmann

    Tom Holtmann TomH Skier

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  17. Doby Man

    Doby Man Out on the slopes Skier

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    I believe that it is highly unlikely that the self arrest demo above is something that is going to be a feasible option in a real meat-missle slide scenario. It seems much more like wishful thinking to me (the type that spreads so easily on the internet). While I have read posts claiming to have used it successfully, I would have to see it to believe it. I have seen countless numbers of falls and slides on the internet but never a self arrest as "depicted" in this clip as well as from experienced backcountry skiers who "would" be the most prepared to use such a tactic. I actually think that, if it really were as likely to be used as some may tend to believe, that it would risk more injury than without.
     
  18. Mike King

    Mike King AKA Habacomike Instructor

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    same person, but real self arrest this time.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2019
  19. Doby Man

    Doby Man Out on the slopes Skier

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    Oh God ... I don't know about that one, Mike. I think the Whippet about would be a much better option.

    Actually, I have been giving hatchets to my youth racers for self arrest needs in a race course. It is much safer than the ski pole method whereby one could could chip a tooth or rip a lip off, or whatever gets in the way.

    upload_2019-1-16_20-33-13.jpeg
     
  20. Mike King

    Mike King AKA Habacomike Instructor

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    Those clips feature the famous Ursula Howland. The second one was in terrain that is over 40 degrees -- and the consequences of not self-arresting can be pretty dire. So, you gotta do what you gotta do, whether it involves losing a few teeth or a dislocated shoulder or whatever. Hatchets are better than nothing, but might be rather interesting, in a morbid sort of way.

    Mike
     
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