Mount demo bindings on new skis first? What say ye?

[Hankj]

I've got a set of quality demo bindings in my binding quiver. Is it worth putting an extra set of holes in a new ski that I will eventually put a normal binding on to be able to really figure out where I want the boot on the ski?

Normally I'm okay mounted on the line. But on a recent set of skis that had these demo bindings, I found that I very much preferred -1cm. I'm going to mount regular bindings on those skis today.

On Monday my new Faction Candide 1.0's ought to show up, and I'm torn whether to just Mount them -3 with regular bindings, or put on the demo bindings and be able to dial in where I really like these skis.

I do tend to churn equipment and sell a lot of skis, often flat.

Thoughts?

 

[Tom K.]

I have an aversion to extra holes in skis, but it really has no significant impact.

But I'm a fanatic about where I am fore/aft on a ski, and often end up drilling another set of holes anyway.

My usual approach is to decide where to mount, and try to know if I'd be most likely to go forward or backward from there. Then I mount the heel piece in such a manner that its track will give me the 10 mm I may need without remounting.

So at worst, I'm remounting a set of toepieces.

 

[GregK]

Re-read that thread for your current skis and how you wanted to ski those and I doubt you’d want to be anywhere but -3cm on those skis. That’s the “Traditional mount” spot and perfect for your use. These are MUCH more forward mounted than the Liberty skis and if you sometimes like a further back mount on other non twin skis, you won’t want to go more forward than the traditional. Will be a perfect mix of stable carver that’s still plenty playful there.

Going further back than -3cm would be getting behind the sidecut sweet spot so not recommended.

Mount them at -3cm with regular bindings and get ready to sell the Evolv 90 shortly after…….

Make sure you check the tune and that the base is flat on the CT 1.0 like any new ski.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Mount them at -3cm with regular bindings and get ready to sell the Evolv 90 shortly after…….

-3 for the win!!! Don't see how this can get any more perfect on the CT 1.0

 

[Living Proof]

If you churn skis often, they demo bindings are a plus for resale as buyer can adjust. I advise to share what your demo bindings are as you will get feedback about the quality of that specific pair. I have a new to me pair with adjustable bindings, and, next time out I will do a 1 cm back adjustment to get better pressure on rear of ski.

 

[Hankj]

I have an aversion to extra holes in skis, but it really has no significant impact.

But I'm a fanatic about where I am fore/aft on a ski, and often end up drilling another set of holes anyway.

My usual approach is to decide where to mount, and try to know if I'd be most likely to go forward or backward from there. Then I mount the heel piece in such a manner that its track will give me the 10 mm I may need without remounting.

So at worst, I'm remounting a set of toepieces.

Same same! I also try to mount so if change needed only toe pieces move.

 

[Hankj]

Re-read that thread for your current skis and how you wanted to ski those and I doubt you’d want to be anywhere but -3cm on those skis. That’s the “Traditional mount” spot and perfect for your use. These are MUCH more forward mounted than the Liberty skis and if you sometimes like a further back mount on other non twin skis, you won’t want to go more forward than the traditional. Will be a perfect mix of stable carver that’s still plenty playful there.

Going further back than -3cm would be getting behind the sidecut sweet spot so not recommended.

Mount them at -3cm with regular bindings and get ready to sell the Evolv 90 shortly after…….

Make sure you check the tune and that the base is flat on the CT 1.0 like any new ski.

Okay, leaning very much toward just mounting -3, thanks

 

[ski otter 2]

What length are your 1.0s? And what's your size? That info would help.

I've done pretty much what you are asking about, using a demo adjustable binding to tune in mount point. At some point some years ago, when I switched back to fixed bindings, I realized I could not tell enough differences to justify the binding change, in my case. So I stay with the adjustable bindings.

Also, I found that with some skis (mostly wider ones, but a few others also of particular brands), I really like the option of continuing to change the mount point now and then. (For instance, many longer powder skis will like to be moved slightly back for deeper, wetter powder/chop - to increase the fore-aft stability temporarily, and to increase the float.)

And sometimes it's as if I have two different behaving but neat skis hidden in the same ski, just with different mount points. (Although with many skis, most skis, and even whole brands, rec. mount points seem to work best.) I think one reason this may be so for me is that I enjoy skiing with different skiing styles, depending on what a ski likes. Such variety is to me fun.

The Faction 1.0 183, for me, is such a versatile ski, different but at a sweet spot at different mount points, adapting style slightly to fit the ski.

The 1.0/183 I have maybe eight to ten days on, with Schizo bindings so I can change mount points. I've tried from - 1 to - 2.6 or so, and 2.6, more or less, is where I've stopped for now, changing skiing style depending which mount point (from freeride to traditional carving to some race carving and technique). Those skis are a lot of fun at all the mount points I've tried, rewarding a more upright stance at the more forward positions.

 

[Hankj]

What length are your 1.0s? And what's your size? That info would help.

I've done pretty much what you are asking about, using a demo adjustable binding to tune in mount point. At some point some years ago, when I switched back to fixed bindings, I realized I could not tell enough differences to justify the binding change, in my case. So I stay with the adjustable bindings.

Also, I found that with some skis (mostly wider ones, but a few others also of particular brands), I really like the option of continuing to change the mount point now and then. (For instance, many longer powder skis will like to be moved slightly back for deeper, wetter powder/chop - to increase the fore-aft stability temporarily, and to increase the float.)

And sometimes it's as if I have two different behaving but neat skis hidden in the same ski, just with different mount points. (Although with many skis, most skis, and even whole brands, rec. mount points seem to work best.) I think one reason this may be so for me is that I enjoy skiing with different skiing styles, depending on what a ski likes. Such variety is to me fun.

The Faction 1.0 183, for me, is such a versatile ski, different but at a sweet spot at different mount points, adapting style slightly to fit the ski.

The 1.0/183 I have maybe eight to ten days on, with Schizo bindings so I can change mount points. I've tried from - 1 to - 2.6 or so, and 2.6, more or less, is where I've stopped for now, changing skiing style depending which mount point (from freeride to traditional carving to some race carving and technique). Those skis are a lot of fun at all the mount points I've tried, rewarding a more upright stance at the more forward positions.

I'll have 183's, like to ski everything basically on the line. 326 BSL. I'm happy enough trying -3

I feel a bit bad for the skis - so much hype - they must be feeling a lot of pressure! If they make me ski 1/100th as well as Candide they've done their job

 

[Philpug]

I've got a set of quality demo bindings in my binding quiver.

What is the demo binding? Also realize that a demo binding that has a significant stack height difference than the retail bindings is also going to have an impact in fore/aft mount position.

 

[Tony Storaro]

I feel a bit bad for the skis - so much hype - they must be feeling a lot of pressure! If they make me ski 1/100th as well as Candide they've done their job

Dunno about skiing like Candide-that's kinda, sorta tall order but for sure they will make you smile even broader than him.

I am a YUGE Stockli fan but the only ski I have two completely identical copies of are...CT 1.0 2021. They are that good.

 

[LiquidFeet]

What is the demo binding? Also realize that a demo binding that has a significant stack height difference than the retail bindings is also going to have an impact in fore/aft mount position.

@Philpug, I'm curious. Which way does stack height impact fore/aft mount position?

 

[Philpug]

@Philpug, I'm curious. Which way does stack height impact fore/aft mount position?

Visualize a side view of a skier on a ski and when they flex into the ski, where is that entergy directed. Now raise them up a 10mm where does that pressure go? 10 mm further out. So to try to duplicate that same pressure on the ski they need to adjust that mount point to achieve the same forward pressure. This then does no address the difference in height and how it affects how the ski is pressured laterally. This is why (in many cases) using a demo binding to try to figure out mount pointt acheive do what the attended goal is.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Visualize a side view of a skier on a ski and when they flex into the ski, where is that entergy directed. Now raise them up a 10mm where does that pressure go? 10 mm further out. So to try to duplicate that same pressure on the ski they need to adjust that mount point to achieve the same forward pressure. This then does no address the difference in height and how it affects how the ski is pressured laterally. This is why (in many cases) using a demo binding to try to figure out mount pointt acheive do what the attended goal is.

OK makes sense when thinking of forward pressure instead of centered pressure. CoM is higher, so CoM moves forward at a different rate from on high.

 

[Hankj]

What is the demo binding? Also realize that a demo binding that has a significant stack height difference than the retail bindings is also going to have an impact in fore/aft mount position.

Attack 13 - I ski all Attack bindings and the 13 demo feels good to me ...

 

[Hankj]

Visualize a side view of a skier on a ski and when they flex into the ski, where is that entergy directed. Now raise them up a 10mm where does that pressure go? 10 mm further out. So to try to duplicate that same pressure on the ski they need to adjust that mount point to achieve the same forward pressure. This then does no address the difference in height and how it affects how the ski is pressured laterally. This is why (in many cases) using a demo binding to try to figure out mount pointt acheive do what the attended goal is.

Interesting, thanks. Attack 13 demo doesn't look much taller than normal Attack 13, if at all?

 

[ARL67]

Attack 14 MN Demo is 32mm heel, 28mm toe
Attack 14 GW is 17 heel, 12 toe

Phil publishes excellent annual charts for each of the 4 big Binding manufactures.
Tyrolia is here:

Comparison Review - 2022 Tyrolia/Fischer Bindings

MODEL TOE HEIGHT (mm) HEEL HEIGHT (mm) SETTING RANGE WEIGHT (g/pr) STANDARD BRAKE SIZES (mm) OPTIONAL BRAKE SIZES (mm) SOLE COMPATIBILITY SX 10 GW 13 21 3-10 1650 78 [J] DIN, GripWalk AM 12 GW 13 21 3.5-12 1980 85, 95, 110 [D] 130, 150 DIN, GripWalk Attack 11 GW 12 17 3-11 1910 [A]85...

www.skitalk.com

 

[Hankj]

Attack 14 MN Demo is 32mm heel, 28mm toe
Attack 14 GW is 17 heel, 12 toe

Phil publishes excellent annual charts for each of the 4 big Binding manufactures.
Tyrolia is here:

Comparison Review - 2022 Tyrolia/Fischer Bindings

MODEL TOE HEIGHT (mm) HEEL HEIGHT (mm) SETTING RANGE WEIGHT (g/pr) STANDARD BRAKE SIZES (mm) OPTIONAL BRAKE SIZES (mm) SOLE COMPATIBILITY SX 10 GW 13 21 3-10 1650 78 [J] DIN, GripWalk AM 12 GW 13 21 3.5-12 1980 85, 95, 110 [D] 130, 150 DIN, GripWalk Attack 11 GW 12 17 3-11 1910 [A]85...

www.skitalk.com

I put the demo binding next to the regular and demo is a bit taller, thanks

 

[princo]

......with Schizo bindings so I can change mount points. I've tried from - 1 to - 2.6 or so, and 2.6, more or less, is where I've stopped for now, changing skiing style depending which mount point (from freeride to traditional carving to some race carving and technique). Those skis are a lot of fun at all the mount points I've tried, rewarding a more upright stance at the more forward positions.

Should we start a petition to bring back the Schizos? I've never had any issues with mine and love their flexibility.

 

[ARL67]

Schizo's required a tool / screwdriver to adjust -> I had them on a set a few years ago, a great idea at the time.
IMO easier to have a modern Demo-Binding and merely lift the tabs to adjust the heel and toe as required -> don't even need to remove my gloves. I've done this many times at the top of the lift when experimenting. Having to dig out a tool means I have to carry that tool, fish it out from my pocket, probably remove my gloves, adjust accordingly, etc, wah, wah, wah