More Bode Questions, riddle me this?

[Lorenzzo]

So he's hoping to promote boots as well as skis.

If it looks like a duck and quacks...

 

[chemist]

Just jumping back in is going to be hard. And it's not something that you ease into on your own timetable.

Not sure if you were responding to my suggestion that he "ease back into WC racing this year on Head," but from what I've seen easing into racing on their own timetable is routine for racers who are returning from injuries and are thus not ready for the rigors of a full WC schedule at the start of the season. As you know, some delay their re-entry until later in the season, some avoid certain disciplines that they used to ski, and some simply race less often, skipping races when they feel their body is not up for it (I remember seeing this in racers with back injuries). Is there any reason Bode couldn't choose this approach as well?

 

[David Chaus]

It's not like he recent got injured while he was at the top of his game and in his prime. He is not dealing with an acute injury that can rehabbed back into top performance. He's got a chronic case of being older than he was.

 

[The Dad]

Than riddle me this Batman, are you saying there is no heelpeice then? I am not saying that it is not a trap, but there is nothing behind the heel especially a 1018 heel. I really don't think there is a heel made of transparent aluminum produced yet.

Obviously, he's switching to telemark.

Occam's razor, people.

 

[Muleski]

Not sure if you were responding to my suggestion that he "ease back into WC racing this year on Head," but from what I've seen easing into racing on their own timetable is routine for racers who are returning from injuries and are thus not ready for the rigors of a full WC schedule at the start of the season. As you know, some delay their re-entry until later in the season, some avoid certain disciplines that they used to ski, and some simply race less often, skipping races when they feel their body is not up for it (I remember seeing this in racers with back injuries). Is there any reason Bode couldn't choose this approach as well?

I feel like I'm going around in circles on this. And, yes, I recall comments here and elsewhere about why not ease back in, and then come back strong for the 2018 Olympics, at age 40. Not responding specifically to your post, more to the comeback theme of letting him decide how and when.

Bode does not control if and when he races on the WC. When he last raced, it was clear that he was a SG and DH specialist, not uncommon for an aging male star. The USST enters the athletes.

It is uncommon for anybody to basically choose to race a DH, then take two weeks off, then race another....unless trying to hold together a season that derailed with a chronic injury. No athlete is managed up front to pick and choose.

The USST is loaded with speed skiers; they have a very talented young group on the rise.
I don't see the USST giving up any of their starts to accommodate Bode trying to fit some racing into his lifestyle. Which is likely what it looks like to them.

I am saying that IF this were a serious comeback {and I'll say it again, at his age, and with his last five seasons, it's almost impossible}, this would be managed very, very differently.

My hunch is that most people have no idea of what a season of WC speed events does to your body. I have heard that Bode looks like he's dropped a lot of muscle mass....a lot in his core. Probably a good move for an active 39 year old. Not for a WC DHer. Just look at Svindall, Nyman, Weibrecht. These guys enter the season big and strong and wear down through the season. It beats you up.

Perhaps I have it all wrong, and the USST will completely accomodate him on this. I do not see him ever stepping into a Head product again, and the whole Bomber thing is questionable. Heard second hand that a coach who knows him very well feels that it would be remarkable if these skis are within 3 seconds of his old stuff. Assume he, based on other factors would struggle to be within two seconds at this point. So, five seconds out.
And that's IF we wins the lawsuit.

That would put you around 40th in most WC DH's....ahead of 10-15 skiers, maybe. Is that Bode? No, that would be sad.

I just don't get "why?" FIS and the USST don't care about Bode's interest in Bomber. If he was serious about a comeback, it would look very different.

If the drive is to prove that you can still podium at 39, would you seriously give up what are a quiver of some of the fastest skis in the world, and custom boots that took years to dial in, let alone one of the richest contracts in the sport?
No. I hear people saying it makes no sense.

Athletes coming back from injury do ease back onto training on snow. Very common, and all managed differently based on their needs. They do not tend to ease into competing, or pick their race starts. Once they are ready, it's full gas.

For example, Lindsey Vonn and Julia Mancuso are coming back at very different pace. Totally different. When either is ready, they'll be back in the gate. Until ready, no. Not like they are going to have Mancuso race in six gentle SG's, and skip the rest.

Just my strong hunch......

And as I say, again, no bigger fan of Bode's than me. It's just time.

So, yes, when I read people thinking that "because he's Bode", or thinking that these are some magic skis, and that we're see him at the top of this sport, I have a very different opinion.

If he is all in on marketing Bomber, I guess I'd suggest a different path. He can sell skis with his brains, hustle and personality. He has huge talent.

I don't think I can add much on this, at this point. Sorry to be that broken record!

 

[chemist]

I feel like I'm going around in circles on this....when I read people thinking that "because he's Bode", or thinking that these are some magic skis, and that we're see him at the top of this sport, I have a very different opinion....

Just jumping back in is going to be hard. And it's not something that you ease into on your own timetable.

Athletes coming back from injury do ease back onto training on snow. Very common, and all managed differently based on their needs. They do not tend to ease into competing, or pick their race starts. Once they are ready, it's full gas.

For example, Lindsey Vonn and Julia Mancuso are coming back at very different pace. Totally different. When either is ready, they'll be back in the gate. Until ready, no. Not like they are going to have Mancuso race in six gentle SG's, and skip the rest.

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not arguing for or against Bode's physical capability to return to WC skiing, since that's a matter of opinion, and I lack the information (and expertise to assess it) that I think is needed to hold a strong one. I don't have access to PT and trainer physical assessments, training times vs. ranked racers, videos showing current form, etc., nor do I have the combined WC PT/trainer/coach expertise needed to make an informed assessment of that info. So again, I'm not arguing against the views you offered in that area which, while of course speculative, seem perfectly reasonable. My own (again, not strongly held) speculation is that you're right, that he's not physically ready to be competitive. And certainly you've made a good argument for why it's problematic for him to be on Bomber rather than Head.

Rather, I was questioning your strong blanket contention that WC athletes are simply not allowed to choose their own timetables, and that once they do start they're expected to race the schedule "full gas", since this is a question not of opinion, but of what the historical facts are. And the evidence I have supports a different view—that while these exceptions are not routine, they do in fact exist. I remember when, in early December 2014, Lindsey Vonn said "I'm going to play it safe and race minimal races, so I can get the confidence and the timing and the feeling of racing again. I'm really going to be safe and smart as I can." This is clearly an example of someone intending to begin the season with a minimal race schedule. Yes, she was doing this in the hope she could race in the 2014 Olympics (and it turns out she wasn't ready) but that's the "why the racer is doing it" and the "whether the racer will be able to pull it off", and remember I'm simply discussing the "if the racer would be allowed to do this". And more recently, here's an article in Ski Racing saying that Tina Maze, after being off last year, is planning to race a minimal schedule this year and then retire: http://www.skiracing.com/stories/tina-maze-to-race-in-maribor-then-likely-retire-reports-say. And I also recall, from a few years back, a male racer (forget his name or country) who was dealing with a chronic back injury (that he'd had for years), and the commentators mentioned it was expected he'd have to reduce his schedule that season to manage his injury.

So my understanding is that what's allowed on the WC is more fluid than the more rigid picture you're painting. Yes these are exceptions to the norm, but it's not accurate to insist these exceptions don't exist. I grant this is point is subtle, but it's also important.

Given the additional info. you provided above about the USST, I think the more accurate statement to make would be something like the following: "While unusual, there's nothing about the inherent structure of the World Cup that strictly precludes athletes returning to skiing with the intention of racing a limited schedule, and in fact such things have happened in the past and will likely continue to happen in the future. However, for the USST to allow Bode to do this, they'd need to take a spot from their bench of younger WC skiers. Given these skiers are talented, and given that the USST is likely eager to get them WC experience, they are probably not going to be willing to do this unless Bode were highly competitive. And the latter seems unlikely."

 

[Doug Briggs]

What comes into play with the athletes competing on their own time schedule has more to do with their doctor's and trainer's opinions of their physical condition than the athlete thinking that would be a good race for them or not. Unless you are from a country with no depth, either you race (when you are deemed capable and offered a position) or someone else takes your place. There are limited slots for each country to enter athletes into races and it is a privilege that is not squandered lightly. Basically you earn your spot and if you don't race for a non-medical reason, you've probably blown your opportunity for more spots.

Vonn was eager to race but not until her condition permitted. Maze proposes racing in Maribour for a 'farewell' race. This is a privilege she has earned and probably like Cuche's farewell race it might involve levity:


Also Schlepper's farewell race:

 

[quant]

It seems Bode is getting into the fashion business. If he ever races again, he'll likely be wearing the best-looking underwear under his USST racing suit. http://observer.com/2016/09/olympic-skier-bode-miller-on-his-first-foray-into-fashion/

Somehow, it seems odd for Bode to be quoted as saying, "You can wear it while your skiing, or walking around in New York City, or at the bar that night. That’s always been a frustration. Skiing gear is a bit angular, and full of reds, whites, blues, blacks and that, to me, doesn’t strike me as something I want to wear at a bar. You want people to love their ski jacket, and want to wear it all the time.”

This doesn't sound like a ski racer.

 

[Monique]

It seems Bode is getting into the fashion business. If he ever races again, he'll likely be wearing the best-looking underwear under his USST racing suit. http://observer.com/2016/09/olympic-skier-bode-miller-on-his-first-foray-into-fashion/

GODDAMMIT

I went to that link expecting Bode in underwear. Instead, all I got were his soulful blue eyes and some stubble ...

 

[Muleski]

Bode is a unique guy. I say that with a few common friends, and knowing a number of people who have worked with him, and for him. Not surprising that he would blow off a company like Kjus to go with an upstart, Aztech. Not surprising that he would leave a HUGE amount of money on the table with Head, to follow this dream of building something with Bomber. I have heard some guesses at what he might have walked away from with Head over the next ten years, and it's....A LOT. Bode loves to fight convention. Some would say that he should get over it with the consequences so high. Maybe stick with the known paycheck? Maybe that's selling out?

I composed a post, which was novel length, and deleted it. Started another, and got to the same place. I'll try to be concise.

Bode is not ready to race on the WC. That is what I hear to be pretty much a universal consensus among people who work at this. No @chemist, there is not hard data in front of me. No test results. If you've worked 12 months a year for a couple of decades in that world, you pretty much just know. These guys do. My impression is that there is no reason to assume that he is WC ready shape. You could say that there is no reason to assume that he's not. Generally when a guy is working to come back, people in this small fraternity know.

The Bomber product is not there, yet. That's being polite compared to how others, in the game, put it. I guess a few techs may have seen the skis. Bode had the best equipment setup on tour, right there with Svindal. The skis proven to be the fastest in the world. Not the brand, the actual skis. So, logic tells you that if this was about being competitive, he would be racing on the absolute best. I guess that some people don't realize just how much the skis matter. I tried to explain it before. The boots....another big issue. It took Head a lot of time, a ton of resources and a lot of R&D to build Bode his custom boots. Now he's in Frankenboot world? That leads people to say that this is not happening. If Bomber skis were magic, they would have at least a couple of skiers on the product. I think there are questions about how many Bomber race skis even exist.

The guy revolutionized this sport. Incredible. He will be the last guy to ski a complete four event WC schedule. It's too much. But at this point he is putting out on the 18th hole of his career. He's not just 39. He is an OLD 39. This is not coming back from a single {or a few} mid-career injury. Not like Svindal, or LV. No. He has been through a lot of injuries, surgeries, chronic problems, and really declining results over the past five years. Some moments of brilliance. His last WC win, the BC DH five years ago, was great.

Marcel Hirscher has told people that he will retire at 30, maybe 31. His body will have had enough. Ted Ligety is 32. He'll be done after the 2018 season. That's pretty well assumed. Bode is a freak of nature, but not at his age. Peter Fill is 34. Svindal will be 34 mid-season. Jansrud is 31. Kilde is 24. Bode is OLD. I am sorry if some pople have this vision of him sending it and winning at Kitz. The wild man. No.

My understanding is that the USST just wants him to retire. Not a chance of anybody publicly stating that. None. They would love to have Bode's retirement celebration be at Beaver Creek. But Bode has been too stubborn to admit that he'll retire. Unless it's while negotiating out of his Head contract, I guess. If this had all been on the table, I bet they might have been able to broker a deal for him to ski down the hill on his Bomber skis......plenty of photo ops. But that's not happening. Bode has always said that one day they'll just realized that he's not there anymore. That's frankly a pain in the neck to deal with. The USST group wants to manage this stuff. And when it's a moving target, it's hard.

I bet we'll see similar confusion with Julia Mancuso. One reason being that when you're still injured, and planning to come back, you are still getting paid. And well paid.

These next two years are very important to the USST. A FIS world championships, WC finals in Aspen, 2018 Olympics. Like any organization, they need to use their resources wisely. They MUST get this "funding gap" closed. That means making. A compelling case to corporate donors that their money will make a difference, and the investment will reflect well on them. They have a strong young group of speed skiers. Those guys need time on the WC hills. You see what happens when they gain it. Look at Travis Ganong. What does an out of shape 39 year old Bode, skiing on his own brand of skis, and finishing far out of the hunt bring to the process? Nothing. It's painful. And this might be where Bode finds that he has no currency. None. So avoid that pain. Let the young guys start. He's just not part of the future. However, while nobody has told me this, he might just think that he still has it.

Note that I have not even mentioned the non-compete. That is a personal battle. Does Bode have the money to fight it? Does Bomber? Or has just filing the suit, and getting in the press accomplished enough? Maybe it has. Because the deal might be enforceable. And I just can't see Bode and Head coming together, at all.

This whole thought of WC athletes essentially controlling when and how and where they race post injury just does not happen. No matter what LV's agent tells her to say, or scripts her too say. No matter what the Slovenian federation says about Maze. No matter what Julia Mancuso puts out on Twitter or Instagram. It is not their choice, plain and simple.

Being injured in season, and then trying to return and come back, avoiding just shutting it down is entirely different. The back injury referenced is probably Svindal, perhaps Jansrud, or Nyman, Weibrecht, or for that matter almost any WC speed skier. The bad back is the curse of that group in recent years. They all have back issues. It's the main reason why most take three months off snow right after the season ends. Used to be that they were back on snow every six weeks, year round. The forces on the body are just brutal.

Bode has a lot of friends. People like him, and respect him, even if he frustrates them. This whole "episode" is confusing to many, and it seems like there are a lot of sealed lips. Some think that the picture is pretty clear, though.

We'll see.

 

[ScotsSkier]

GODDAMMIT

I went to that link expecting Bode in underwear. Instead, all I got were his soulful blue eyes and some stubble ...

TMI......

 

[ScotsSkier]

Some more insight from Portillo. Seems Bode spent a lot of time adjusting/modifying/testing the Full Tilt boots but was only able to get them to work successfully on gliding sections. Wouldn't work turning on steeper stuff so he was also comparing with the dobermans...

 

[Muleski]

Some more insight from Portillo. Seems Bode spent a lot of time adjusting/modifying/testing the Full Tilt boots but was only able to get them to work successfully on gliding sections. Wouldn't work turning on steeper stuff so he was also comparing with the dobermans...

Nice insight, SS. Thanks. Makes sense. You may have also heard comments to the effect that it would be hard to find two more different boots, and that the race world is taking in this info and thinking no return. The full on Doberman is a boot that he knows well, and that any boot tech can work with with athlete feedback. Why not just give them a shot?

Wonder where the lawsuit stands? If Head digs in, and the court doesn't give Bode some relief, then his only equipment option is Head. And, as discussed, that might never happen.
Another factor is the USST equipment pool, and those mechanics. Both Bomber and Full Tilt have athletes {moguls, freestyle} on their products. I don't know how the mechanics work. Do the pool fees increase for them both as soon as they have an alpine athlete on them? is that a factor?

I would assume that we'll see some more "stuff" in the media, assuming that Bode and Bomber want to keep this visible. The longer it goes, the more I think a serious comeback is out of the question. But creating a buzz to try to sell some skis may not be.

SS has probably heard that Bode's had a very well known and trusted tech doing some work on the Bomber skis. Some cynics say that they have to be re-branded skis, made by others. There is a second rumor mill that says they are a small number made by Bomber, and that they simply are not going to be a competitive ski. Work being done to try to make them so. Seems to be pretty quiet. Likely that very few really know, and they aren't saying much. Or people are being protective.

The boot, the skis, the age, lack of training off and on snow....the lawsuit. It seems like this comeback is very unlikely.

I hope we see him doing some TV commentary. He's great at it.

Good boot info, SS.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Yeah, I was given some more info on the skis but I'm afraid confidentiality stops me from sharing it here. He does have a former Head tech working with him on the skis though.

 

[Philpug]

Some more insight from Portillo. Seems Bode spent a lot of time adjusting/modifying/testing the Full Tilt boots but was only able to get them to work successfully on gliding sections. Wouldn't work turning on steeper stuff so he was also comparing with the dobermans...

Maybe a Dalbello Krypton? I recall some early reviews of the boot likening it to a "Flexon on Steroids". It has the plug of the Scorpion and still is a 3 buckle design. Why not? Why not a Salomon SX90, Girahdelli skied it to WC wins in the 80's and he is working with him with Bombers. Why not? Well, there is a reason that there are just Lange Z's, Atomic Redsters, Head Raptors,Tecnica/Nordica's winning at the highest level.

I will defer to @Muleski on what Bode's chances are but it really comes down to is what is the why? Is it to fuel his own fire? Is it to promote Bomber? What is it he wants to accomplish here? If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there.

 

[cantunamunch]

If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there.

True, but to bring back a Warren Millerism - When you come to a fork in the road, take it!

 

[Lorenzzo]

True, but to bring back a Warren Millerism - When you come to a fork in the road, take it!

Yogi Berra.

 

[cantunamunch]

Yogi Berra.

Indeed.

 

[Monique]

"I never said that" - Abe Lincoln.

 

[quant]

Maybe a Dalbello Krypton? I recall some early reviews of the boot likening it to a "Flexon on Steroids". It has the plug of the Scorpion and still is a 3 buckle design. Why not? Why not a Salomon SX90, Girahdelli skied it to WC wins in the 80's and he is working with him with Bombers. Why not? Well, there is a reason that there are just Lange Z's, Atomic Redsters, Head Raptors,Tecnica/Nordica's winning at the highest level.

I will defer to @Muleski on what Bode's chances are but it really comes down to is what is the why? Is it to fuel his own fire? Is it to promote Bomber? What is it he wants to accomplish here? If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there.

Why? He is building a brand. There is a ton more potential money to be made with his equity position in Bomber. Sure, he is taking a big financial risk given the guaranteed endorsement money he gave up. If he didn't take risks Bode wouldn't be Bode.