MA Request

[Seldomski]

Start of the season, time to crush my ego .... I'm looking for some tips and specific drill or two for early season to improve - first time on snow this season will be in a couple days. I have some ideas based on watching these, but would love some expert advice. I most want to improve in short turns, with the aim of getting better in moguls in more challenging conditions (i.e. moguls with steeper pitch, bigger, firmer snow, etc). I ski primarily in west with trips to CO, UT, and NV planned this season.




What do I see?

Spoiler

I am assuming my right footers are better than left.... I'm not sure what exactly is happening to make the two sides different -- I think I am leaving too much weight on the inside ski on the left footers and end up inclined. I am not committing to be over the left ski? This also means I don't consistently pull the right foot back?

Extension at transition. I can get away with this on groomers (if snow is hero), but it's a really bad strategy for moguls. I'm not sure what groomer drill to do for this to encourage flex at transition. Going into moguls does force me to flex my legs. This does carry back to groomer skiing for a while, but effect is not permanent.

Bending at the waist... not good. Also, not much snow spray off the ski tips. Likely I am not forward.

 

[Josh Matta]

What did momentum say you needed to get better at?

 

[Josh Matta]

your rotation and edging movement are coming from your spine instead of you hip socket. You need to develop leg steering from the hip socket before you can fix the other issues present as well. The skiing in 2018 had much nicer rounded line than the 2019 videos, but the spinal angulation was present in all the video, in fact the technique didnt change despite coaching but the turns in 2019 were less round.

what is your intent while skiing? turn shape? turn purpose? stance width? what parts of the body are you trying to move? whats your goal for bump skiing?

 

[JESinstr]

Edit. Was preparing my post while Josh was posting his. Think I am saying the same thing.

You need to improve your upper/lower separation with the emphasis on keeping the upper body quiet, facing direction of travel and driving the activity to the lower body.
Two drills. Greg's pole drag drill

and the double pole drill

 

[Seldomski]

@Josh Matta
Momentum camp really pushed turn pace so the skiing there was rushed more than the earlier video. Other factor is the earlier video was day 2 after spending the entire prior day on drills. The short turn vid from Whistler was 3rd run or so after a 2 month gap. And finally I really like the ski I had for the 2018 video.

Good notes on the leg steering. I'll think more about that when I ski next.

When I ski lately I am mostly thinking about engaging the edge of the new outside ski as early as possible. To do this, I am actually concentrating on the new inside ski and tipping it toward the new turn. This was to correct many years of totally ignoring the inside ski and mostly bracing against the new outside. The other thing I try to do is keep turning and linking one into the next.

I am also not usually trying to carve cleanly. When I do that i generally pick up a lot of speed and the forces are too high for me to manage and ski like that all day.

My goal with moguls is to ski the ones that can be zippered in zipper line. Irregular or really steep, I just want to ski them with flow in a narrow corridor.

@Josh Matta
What drill should I do to focus on leg movement in hip sockets? Any tips for what I should be thinking about while skiing?

 

[tlougee]

I think your skiing shows nice rhythm. One suggestion I have would be to try to engage the ski tips a little more at the start of the turn. You tend to swish the tails around a bit. In order to engage the tips you probably need to close your ankles a little more at the start of the turn to get pressure in the front of your boots. Pivot slips - done correctly - are a good drill for working on separation of upper and lower body. The majority of the pivot should come from the hip sockets not the waist. As you mention you extend at transition as almost all skiers do. I find that tuck turns can be an effective drill in developing the ability to retract at transition. So the idea there is to get in a tuck on easy terrain - the goal is not to go fast in this case - and then to try and make nice round turns not just sliding the skis around, and what you will find is that if you hold the tuck you can't extend so you have to retract to move your skis and legs from one side of your body to the other. It also seemed to me your pole plants in the mogul video were a little weak and maybe not out in front enough. Another exercise you can do is ski across a mogul field like that going over the moguls flexing and extending in an effort to keep your skis in constant contact with the snow and your head as level as possible without the fear of picking up speed and crashing. Finally I found this video by Tom Gellie to be really good concerning mogul skiing -

 

[Loki1]

Seldomski,

What do you feel is the benefit of tipping the inside ski, as opposed to the outside ski? How do you feel it engages the outside ski as you have said?
When I watch you ski there is a definite opening of your stance between each turn however more pronounced on your left footers, in both videos. What do you think is the cause for this? What do you feel underneath your foot? I would be curious if you feel back at all?

 

[Loki1]

Edit. Was preparing my post while Josh was posting his. Think I am saying the same thing.

You need to improve your upper/lower separation with the emphasis on keeping the upper body quiet, facing direction of travel and driving the activity to the lower body.
Two drills. Greg's pole drag drill

and the double pole drill

I would be careful using heluvaskiers post to cite examples of good skiing. While he has perfected a certain "move" there are people that would argue that his skiing is very limited and not an "example" of what to do. I am included in that sample. Especially when giving feedback to one that is asking for tips to improve his skiing in moguls and more challenging conditions. Helluva has refined a technique that is applicable to none of these outcomes. That is not to say he is not a great or hell of a great skier. However his goals and outcoomes are much different than the original posters.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

If you were my lesson, the first thing I'd see is that you don't move enough when you are skiing. In the first video I was thinking that you need more flex/extend, but it wasn't really that big of a deal. In the bumps video, you look super stiff. I think I'd start there. FWIW, turning from the hip sockets is gonna be harder when you never flex your legs.

 

[Josh Matta]

I would argue leg flex comes from the hip socket being free ......

 

[Noodler]

I would be careful using heluvaskiers post to cite examples of good skiing. While he has perfected a certain "move" there are people that would argue that his skiing is very limited and not an "example" of what to do. I am included in that sample. Especially when giving feedback to one that is asking for tips to improve his skiing in moguls and more challenging conditions. Helluva has refined a technique that is applicable to none of these outcomes. That is not to say he is not a great or hell of a great skier. However his goals and outcoomes are much different than the original posters.

Please stop perpetuating this myth. This is an old argument against this "style" of skiing that is 100% false.

I have skied with Heluva numerous times in CO in all conditions on all kinds of varied terrain. The movements and technique seen in the video can be applied everywhere, all the time. It's unfortunate that you still don't understand this.

 

[JESinstr]

I would be careful using heluvaskiers post to cite examples of good skiing.

Hellooooo....this is a DRILL that helps instill alignment . Please refrain from reading something else into it.

 

[Mike King]

@Seldomski, the key to your skiing is to learn how to tip the skis on edge rather than pushing them to an edge. I suspect you started skiing on straight skis where the "poke, pop, pivot, drop" method was effective and even taught as a mechanism to turn. What I'd have you focus on is learning how to tip the skis to an edge to establish a platform very early in the turn that can accept the pressure that will arise in the turn -- these two factors allow the ski to bend and to redirect your mass across the hill.

So, there are two things I'd have you work on. The first is the skate to tip progression. Get rid of your poles and find someplace flat, or (perhaps as a progression) slightly uphill. What do you have to do to effectively skate? You need to start with a bent ankle, knee, and hip and roll the knee in to establish a platform (edge) against which you can then push. Practice this rolling of the knee into the hill.

Once you can really get a good edge and can skate efficiently, find a gentle blue or green slope that has minimal traffic and good site lines. Now it is time to practice J turns. Start at a shallow traverse across the hill and roll both knees into the turn. Note that you must be in a relatively flexed position (knee, ankle, and most importantly, hip) to effectively tip those knees into the hill. Virtually all of your weight should be on the outside (downhill) ski. Examine your tracks -- you are looking for two absolutely clean tracks of the skis without any skid. As you can accomplish this in a shallow traverse, keep increasing the starting point exposure to the fall line until you are able to start straight down the fall line and bring the finish of the turn straight back uphill without any skidding.

Now you are ready to focus on the transition. See if you can cleanly untip the skis and roll the knees down the hill to establish the new turn. Accomplish all of this by action of the knees -- roll them down the hill to untip in the finish of the old turn and continue tipping them past flat into the new turn. Try to make all of this as clean as possible.

What this will require is your body to move with the skis rather than away from them. Resist any temptation to push on the ski or, for that matter, to extend your leg at this point. You want to accomplish this through tipping, not through pushing.

What you will notice is that you are flexed through transition. So now might be time to work on the second progression. These are pivot slips with retraction. The objective is to be maximally flexed in the ankle, knee, and hip at edge change. Edge change for a pivot slip is when the skis are flat and in the fall line. So start in an extended position with your upper body facing down the fall line -- the separation between your upper body and lower body is in the hip joint. So the skis are across the fall line, but your upper body is facing down the fall line. Start side slipping straight down the fall line -- if you are drifting forward along the skis across the hill, your weight is too far forward, and if you are drifting backwards, you are too far aft. Get in the center of the skis and you will slide straight down the fall line.

Now start rotating your legs (your femurs) to allow the skis to steer increasingly down the hill. This isn't a turn, its a slip straight down the fall line. As you rotate the legs (and skis), flex your ankles, knees and hips so that when your skis go flat and are moving straight down the fall line, you are flexed. Keep steering the skis up the hill by rotating your legs, but now start extending your legs.

This second drill is intended to help with two important factors: separation of the upper and lower body, and the ability to turn the skis from a flexed position.

These two drills will go a ways toward putting more performance in your skiing. The three things that they will address are:

• Tipping the skis to an edge rather than pushing them to one,
• Separating the upper and lower body, and
• Learning to use dynamic range of movement in your skiing.

Good luck!

Mike

 

[Noodler]

@Mike King - completely agree on your assessment that tipping is the SMIM and learning to flex to release should have focus.

@Seldomski - first, kudos to you for posting MA video. Video analysis is the best way to understand your own skiing and improve.

Skiing starts from the ground up. So although there is a lot that can be improved in upper body movements/positions, focus on what's happening with your skis (as all the rest of the body movements support what you're trying to get your skis to do on the snow). I don't know what your intent was for the skiing in the videos you posted, but you are not achieving higher edge angles. How high can you tip your skis if you really try? I ask because the ability to bring your skis up on high edge angles provides a skier with more options on the mountain. Higher edge angles can provide the ability to tighten the turn radius and better manage your speed without resorting to skidding.

With all that said, what is the key to tipping your skis to higher edge angles? Consider the movements available to us to put a ski on edge. There is "inclination", where we can lean our entire body over to one side or the other. There is "hip angulation" where the femur rotates in the hip joint as hip moves inside of the turn. Finally there's "knee angulation" where our flexed knees can be moved to the inside of the turn (all tipping movements should be initiated by our feet - inversion and eversion within the boots).

Try this test inside or on the mountain with your boots and skis on. Play with the 3 methods of bringing your skis up on edge and see what it takes to achieve the highest edge angles. What you should find is that when your knees are bent/flexed you can really tip the skis high up on edge while remaining in balance over the skis. That realization should pave the path to your new better ski turn technique.

I'll leave it at this point for now. If you're interested I'll share more and talk about how to improve/drill ski tipping.

 

[Seldomski]

Firstly, thanks everyone for the analysis. I will not post too much since I am the student here...

What do you feel is the benefit of tipping the inside ski, as opposed to the outside ski? How do you feel it engages the outside ski as you have said?

I lighten/lift the new inside to allow weight transfer to the new outside ski. If I think about pressuring the new outside ski instead, I generally get poorer ski performance. I also fail to roll/move the inside foot and end up with the inside foot blocking. Sometimes I fall this way. I'm not saying this is 100% the thing to do for everyone.... just that it generally improves turns for me.

What do you feel underneath your foot? I would be curious if you feel back at all?

When I make a 'good turn,' I can feel the shovel to tail during the turn. I don't feel back/aft. Others/my perceptions may vary.

I don't know what your intent was for the skiing in the videos you posted, but you are not achieving higher edge angles.

I was not focusing specifically on achieving high edge angles. I generally ski with a brushed turn for speed control.

Now you are ready to focus on the transition. See if you can cleanly untip the skis and roll the knees down the hill to establish the new turn. Accomplish all of this by action of the knees -- roll them down the hill to untip in the finish of the old turn and continue tipping them past flat into the new turn. Try to make all of this as clean as possible.

I've done the prior drills, so I will skip to this one when I am skiing soon. Thanks! @Mike King Do you have a video of the second drill? Pivot slip plus retraction? I got lost in some of those words.

I am seeing some common threads here. I'll play with skiing with maximum knee/ankle flexion and rolling the skis from a flexed position. I'll try to exaggerate the flex as much as possible.

 

[Noodler]

For most skiers, learning to use flexion for releasing a turn is about as foreign a movement as exists for them in skiing. It can take seasons worth of work to really own it. Being "short" at transition and "long" at the turn apex not only will open more options for you to handle varied terrain, but it is inherent to good mogul skiing (which was another one of your stated goals).

 

[karlo]

What I'd have you focus on is learning how to tip the skis to an edge to establish a platform very early in the turn that can accept the pressure that will arise in the turn

I did a Creative Teaching training module this past weekend. Soccer player wants to improve skiing. The imagery I conjured up was a goalie defending against a penalty kick. Solid athletic stance, ready to leap left or right. The kick goes goalie-right. Leap right by pressuring the left foot. In the previously mentioned athletic stance, certainly the knees are flexed, as are ankles and hips, so that thrust is generated upon leaping.

As for transference to skiing, the transition between turns is when the goalie is waiting for the strike. Athletic stance. Ankles, knees, flexed, skier balanced over feet to go either way. Not that in transition, we are in that weightless state between turns; we are light on our feet; both skis are flat to snow; if we tip the slope to be level with a floor, we appear to be standing on the floor in all respects, in the athletic stance. Now, the strike is, say, to our left (downhill is to our left). We pressure that right foot and ski; we extend that leg gradually. Our left leg flexes to take that leaping step to the left, tipping us and the skis.

That’s a rough vision. The skating drill and skating in general takes it to the next level. Having learned from the Patriots, we know in advance that the strike will be to the left. So, we can pressure that right foot and ski early! That happens at the end of the turn, before transition, while we are still on the little toe edge of the old inside ski. As we enter transition, we roll from that edge to the big toe edge of the outside ski, rolling from one edge to the other, as a speed skater does in one stroke.

Now, what about that new inside ski? The goalie, the skater, in what direction is the foot pointed? It is pointed towards the direction of the turn. When that foot lands, will it land on its big toe side, flat-footed, or on its little toe side (it’s outside edge?). Just do what’s natural and I think the inside ski will tip as needed.

 

[geepers]

@Seldomski - good on you for posting an MA request. There's typically a heap for folk like me to learn in the responses from instructors - it's not only the skier being assessed who gets the benefit. And we get the chance to get feedback on our feedback!

I feel this vid assessment of 2 skiers in shorts has much relevance to your skiing. There are common factors in your groomer shorts and the skier on the right especially related to the building ground reaction just after the apex.

So why are the ski tails sliding? Part of the reason has been addressed by others on separation, edging and retaining correct platform angle. The other part is to check your fore/aft balance. It looks to me that you are a little too forward. In both the groomer vids there is a fair bit of rotation of the skis around a point towards the tips.

Practically all these drills from JFB are relevant.

On flex to release... my take is that it becomes the more obvious thing to do when there's ground reaction force pushing our feet back at us. As we become better at creating it, there's a need to manage the pressure even to the point of stopping the skis leaving the snow.

 

[jack97]

IMO, Josh's post #3 gives good insight with your hip socket, you're not rotating the legs wrt to this joint. I would go further and say you are dropping your hips when you turn in the flats and that eventually limits your flex range when you take this into the moguls. Vid below of Berger and Lathella making turns in the flats, the hips do not drop in the turns. Just leg steering.

Extension at transition. I can get away with this on groomers (if snow is hero), but it's a really bad strategy for moguls. I'm not sure what groomer drill to do for this to encourage flex at transition. Going into moguls does force me to flex my legs. This does carry back to groomer skiing for a while, but effect is not permanent.

As for drills to flex, look at the vid below. The skier flexes at the middle of a rotary turn or a side slip and they progress with this into the moguls.



Another drill from a former world cupper at 4:58, she make mediums turns and flexes in the transition. In order to get that range, the hips can't drop into the turn.

 

[HardDaysNight]

@Josh Matta nailed it in his first post. The hip rotation is also the reason you tend to push the skis to an edge as identified by @Mike King. That’s enough information to work with. Any more is superfluous at this stage. BTW it’s pretty decent skiing ⛷