MA Request - Learning to Carve in 2024

[Henry]

Compare the fundamental movements in this video with yours. You can't yet match it, but you can do the same fundamentals.
Go to youtube and put this in the search box: TsIGyK92Ymo

Here's another. You won't yet make the extreme movements you see here, but you can do the fundamentals. When he's flexed releasing the old turn he is back on his skis, but it doesn't matter because the skis are light on the snow. Before he puts pressure on them he has pulled them back under him so the tips engage to start the new turn. youtube mgbEAcSTdsc

 

[Mike King]

Compare the fundamental movements in this video with yours. You can't yet match it, but you can do the same fundamentals.
Go to youtube and put this in the search box: TsIGyK92Ymo

Here's another. You won't yet make the extreme movements you see here, but you can do the fundamentals. When he's flexed releasing the old turn he is back on his skis, but it doesn't matter because the skis are light on the snow. Before he puts pressure on them he has pulled them back under him so the tips engage to start the new turn. youtube mgbEAcSTdsc

Personally, I think the videos below are more appropriate for a recreational skier, although they are not attainable by many of them.

 

[rustypouch]

Your weight's too far back. You're rushing your turns, starting them by pushing your heels away from you. You also seem to be focusing on keeping shoulders pointed straight downhill. All those are interconnected, and make for poor skiing.

 

[Tony S]

Your weight's too far back. You're rushing your turns, starting them by pushing your heels away from you. You also seem to be focusing on keeping shoulders pointed straight downhill. All those are interconnected, and make for poor skiing.

Okay, that's the "criticism." Now for the "constructive" part.

 

[KingGrump]

Okay, that's the "criticism." Now for the "constructive" part.

The constructive part?
Stop doing what you are doing.

 

[François Pugh]

The constructive part?
Stop doing what you are doing.

That's kinda like saying, "This medicine won't work if you think of a monkey while taking it."
Tell him what to do with his feet instead, "Pull your feet behind you, tip to new edges and relax old outside leg when you're done with the old turn and want to start the new turn."

 

[rustypouch]

That's kinda like saying, "This medicine won't work if you think of a monkey while taking it."
Tell him what to do with his feet instead, "Pull your feet behind you, tip to new edges and relax old outside leg when you're done with the old turn and want to start the new turn."

Sure, but that's not very helpful either. How do you do that? You can move in all sorts of ways to accomplish those outcomes. It's like telling someone to play flute by blowing into one part, and moving your fingers on another.

Online, it's hard to know if advice is decent or not. Plus, so much easier to describe on snow. If anyone is around Banff, we could go for a ski.

 

[Prosper]

Yes, my focus is on the outside ski. You are also correct in that I tend to have too much weight on my inside ski. I've also been trying to work on starting the turn by tipping the new inside ski at the beginning of the turn and allowing the new outside ski to follow. This is still a conscious action and I often forget.

Yes, you are correct that my focus is on getting early edging (above the fall line). I'm not sure if I'm leaning to build pressure or leaning in to balance against the pressure. Though on reflection (and based on others observations), I think I am leaning in too much/too early, causing more weight on my inside ski. I had to think about the "pause" that you talked about. So, this pause would be after the apex of the turn? If so, I am trying to hold the ski on edge to continue the turn (complete the turn?). Also, with regards to your comment/question about "pause", when combined with your comment about the 3rd video. I believe the pause is me waiting for the pressure to build up before I transition to the next turn.

Not an instructor so take my advice with a grain of salt. I recently skied with a buddy who is probably just a little more advanced than you. He asked me for some ski technique advice. I had him do some stork turns for a run or two on some easier blue runs. After that we went to a black groomer and I asked him to focus only on tipping to the little toe side early. What a difference it made in his skiing. He was even able to bring that move into some easy moguls. Of course over the next few days as we skied more difficult terrain, he reverted to his old technique. Commit to doing drills for a few runs on easier terrain just about everyday you ski. If you can’t do that, commit on doing those drills on the run outs or really easy terrain going back to the lifts. Don’t waste of terrain and use that easier terrain to work on your technique. Doing lots of stork turns this season for me has really helped with my transition and preventing the reverse wedge when moving into the next turn. YMMV.

 

[François Pugh]

Sure, but that's not very helpful either. How do you do that? You can move in all sorts of ways to accomplish those outcomes. It's like telling someone to play flute by blowing into one part, and moving your fingers on another.

Online, it's hard to know if advice is decent or not. Plus, so much easier to describe on snow. If anyone is around Banff, we could go for a ski.

Hmmm. Sounds pretty easy to understand, but my mind works differently - so there's that.
Pull your feet back behind you. If you were hanging on from the monkey bars and tried to do that I think the feet would move in the right direction. If I told you to tip them while hanging from the monkey bars, I think you would do that too. If I told you to simultaneously lift your right foot higher in the air at the same time, I think it would not be that difficult for you. Why is it so much harder to understand these instructions on snow on skis?

 

[Yepow]

Hmmm. Sounds pretty easy to understand, but my mind works differently - so there's that.
Pull your feet back behind you. If you were hanging on from the monkey bars and tried to do that I think the feet would move in the right direction. If I told you to tip them while hanging from the monkey bars, I think you would do that too. If I told you to simultaneously lift your right foot higher in the air at the same time, I think it would not be that difficult for you. Why is it so much harder to understand these instructions on snow on skis?

I will answer this seriously--because when you are hanging on the monkey bars, you can't fall over or prematurely lean inside and back to initiate. Have been trying this all season and it's still hard to achieve dynamic balance for me.

 

[François Pugh]

Wait, what? You pull your feet behind your body and your body is too far back?
EDIT: " Damnit Spock! I'm an engineer, not a ski instructor!"
I just can't imagine how that's possible.

 

[Chris V.]

In my school, we recently had a pair of tech talks on some questions of biomechanics as pertaining to skiing. The effects on fore-aft balance of some of the muscular movements actually changes depending upon whether they are done in an open chain or closed chain environment. In order for flexing the knees with the hamstrings to result in tucking the feet back, and hence moving balance forward, it needs to be done in an open chain environment. If the skier is heavy on his feet when the tuck back is attempted, it won't have the desired effect. So the hamstring contraction needs to be timed correctly relative to the transition, and the release needs to create a lightening of the skis to facilitate the movement.

Alternative cues may be just to flex the ankles, to seek to maintain pressure along the lengths if the soles of the feet through the turn cycle, and to maintain contact of the shins with the boot tongues. The nervous system can be pretty effective at subconsciously figuring out how to accomplish this.

 

[Tony S]

Hmmm. Sounds pretty easy to understand, but my mind works differently - so there's that.
Pull your feet back behind you. If you were hanging on from the monkey bars and tried to do that I think the feet would move in the right direction. If I told you to tip them while hanging from the monkey bars, I think you would do that too. If I told you to simultaneously lift your right foot higher in the air at the same time, I think it would not be that difficult for you. Why is it so much harder to understand these instructions on snow on skis?

I will answer this seriously--because when you are hanging on the monkey bars, you can't fall over or prematurely lean inside and back to initiate. Have been trying this all season and it's still hard to achieve dynamic balance for me.

If I had had to be able to hang from monkey bars before learning to ski I would have stuck with badminton.

 

[François Pugh]

If I had had to be able to hang from monkey bars before learning to ski I would have stuck with badminton.

Badminton???? Where's the fun in that? Well, maybe beach badminton.

 

[Fuller]

I'd say you need to get more out of your ankles, round out the turn, get early edge engagement and really crank the skis over using just the ankle joints to initiate. This is followed by knees and hips in the later phase of the turn. I had no idea my 70 year old ankles could do some of the things I had them doing this year. It's like they've been asleep all this time and finally woke up.

Reilly thinks about ankles all the time...

 

[LiquidFeet]

Yes, my focus is on the outside ski. .......

@az29okg, you are getting a lot of good advice in this thread. But that advice is coming at you in separate posts. I'd like to try to pull those pieces of advice together in a coherent way. Using your thinking process as a basis will make that possible for me.

So... here's a summary of what your posts above reveal about your conceptual approach to turns. Correct me where I've got things wrong.

--Your focus as you start and as you develop your turns is on the outside ski.
--You initiate your turns by extending your new outside leg to get that outside ski up on edge early, above the fall line. This brings your body as a whole upward, so you stand tall as you start your turns.
--As you extend that new outside leg, you lean your whole body to the inside of the new turn. The extension and lean is one combined movement. You lean your body in order to build outside ski pressure and/or to balance against that pressure... and/or to get that ski out away from your body. Although you haven't said so, I think you may also be leaning your body in order to tip your outside ski up on edge - since the body is pretty much working as a unit from head to foot. It tips, the ski tips.
--You are aware that your body's lean puts too much weight on the inside ski. You know that the weight on the inside ski causes the outside ski to have less weight on it and thus it slips outwards instead of gripping, widening your stance as it does the slipping. You wonder if the inside ski weighting and the outside ski slippage happens because the lean is too much or too early.
--You have been trying to start your turns by tipping the new inside ski to its little toe edge and allowing the outside ski to follow, but you find yourself forgetting to do this. This lack of attention to the inside ski means it doesn't tip enough to match the outside ski, and while the outside ski moves outward, the inside ski stays back up under you to support that body weight hovering over it. If that inside ski didn't stay back up under you, the lean would result in a fall sideways onto your shoulder.
--I think that you equate "pressuring" the outside ski as it moves outward and up onto edge with building grip (tail following tip in a carve). This is why you focus on the outside ski through the turn. You are trying to get it to carve.

 

[LiquidFeet]

@az29okg, this is what I'd like to see you doing.

 

[Yepow]

despite a focused year trying to remedy this, this is still largely me, @LiquidFeet .

 

[geepers]

despite a focused year trying to remedy this, this is still largely me, @LiquidFeet .

Maybe cut yourself some slack.

One of the differences between, say, Reilly McGlashan, and most of us is that he once skied about 34 full seasons back to back. (And now, after a short intermission to resolve some hip issues seems he's again in back to back season mode.) Deb Armstrong said in a vid somewhere that her dad wouldn't allow her to throw a tantrum after a bad golf shot - instead he pointed out that if some-one doesn't get to spend as much time at golf as the pros perhaps they shouldn't expect quite the same results.

for the progress made. And, even more for wanting to keep improving. And, even more for being prepared to post for MA here.

 

[geepers]

@az29okg, you are getting a lot of good advice in this thread. But that advice is coming at you in separate posts. I'd like to try to pull those pieces of advice together in a coherent way. Using your thinking process as a basis will make that possible for me.

So... here's a summary of what your posts above reveal about your conceptual approach to turns. Correct me where I've got things wrong.

--Your focus as you start and as you develop your turns is on the outside ski.
--You initiate your turns by extending your new outside leg to get that outside ski up on edge early, above the fall line. This brings your body as a whole upward, so you stand tall as you start your turns.
--As you extend that new outside leg, you lean your whole body to the inside of the new turn. The extension and lean is one combined movement. You lean your body in order to build outside ski pressure and/or to balance against that pressure... and/or to get that ski out away from your body. Although you haven't said so, I think you may also be leaning your body in order to tip your outside ski up on edge - since the body is pretty much working as a unit from head to foot. It tips, the ski tips.
--You are aware that your body's lean puts too much weight on the inside ski. You know that the weight on the inside ski causes the outside ski to have less weight on it and thus it slips outwards instead of gripping, widening your stance as it does the slipping. You wonder if the inside ski weighting and the outside ski slippage happens because the lean is too much or too early.
--You have been trying to start your turns by tipping the new inside ski to its little toe edge and allowing the outside ski to follow, but you find yourself forgetting to do this. This lack of attention to the inside ski means it doesn't tip enough to match the outside ski, and while the outside ski moves outward, the inside ski stays back up under you to support that body weight hovering over it. If that inside ski didn't stay back up under you, the lean would result in a fall sideways onto your shoulder.
--I think that you equate "pressuring" the outside ski as it moves outward and up onto edge with building grip (tail following tip in a carve). This is why you focus on the outside ski through the turn. You are trying to get it to carve.

Excellent summary.

Some threads here on skiing advice bring this to mind....