ma req

[asolo]

@Henry , the Rebels iSpeed in the race series is in fact an 18m ski in a 180, and is Franz Klammer's favorite recreational ski. It isn't a Supershape iSpeed. I think we've all been assuming the OP's been talking about the former, not the latter. Also, his ankles are NOT bent which is one of the reasons he's folded at the waist and hunched over.

"Ankles not bent". I have looked at other footage and this is not the case. Any more angle, and my knees will touch the ski tips, the angle is something like 25 degrees, eyeballing it.

I have tested some other suggestions and all of them are a miss, except for outside ski pressure. The timing of the turn is way late and this could be something impossible to fix, since I have a slow reaction time (always did).

On a related note, the short turn is more problematic. The only thing I can see is that I make the edge angle from knees, as opposed to hips. Supposed to be a good thing, right? Kind of like mogul skiing. Then, the timing and dynamics is all wrong.

***

This is where coaching and correcting things based on outside observation hit a limit, I think. I have experience with another sport and there's really no "coaching" there. Just years of training and trying. Kids eventually figure it out on their own (the ones that don't simply get weeded out). Coaches just make sure kids don't goof off

 

[CoPow]

@asolo
The people here are not like calm unified bunch, a lot of them (and I) are arguing like crazy, have no common ground. AND all of them are saying your ankles are open and nobody is arguing about it. That's like a miracle.

You don't wanna be told to do something which is fine, I don't either but if so, it's rude to ask for opinions even I think. I'm pretty sure it took a whole lot of time to write up some of the posts. If you think coaches just make sure kids don't goof off then I'm pretty sure you are not that great at the other sports. At what level did you compete in figure skating?

 

[markojp]

"Ankles not bent". I have looked at other footage and this is not the case. Any more angle, and my knees will touch the ski tips, the angle is something like 25 degrees, eyeballing it.

I have tested some other suggestions and all of them are a miss, except for outside ski pressure. The timing of the turn is way late and this could be something impossible to fix, since I have a slow reaction time (always did).

On a related note, the short turn is more problematic. The only thing I can see is that I make the edge angle from knees, as opposed to hips. Supposed to be a good thing, right? Kind of like mogul skiing. Then, the timing and dynamics is all wrong.

***

This is where coaching and correcting things based on outside observation hit a limit, I think. I have experience with another sport and there's really no "coaching" there. Just years of training and trying. Kids eventually figure it out on their own (the ones that don't simply get weeded out). Coaches just make sure kids don't goof off

We can lead you to water, but we sure as heck can't make you drink. Believe and rationalize what you want about your skiing. You've asked for MA, and it's been provided. You're not ready to accept what everyone here (especially those with race/coaching/teaching/full credentials) is telling you. But don't mind us, just take stock in the clock. Without changing your skiing, it will continue to judge your reality less favorably than you might feel you deserve. Anyhow, good luck with your quest.

 

[Tony S]

The people here are not like calm unified bunch, a lot of them (and I) are arguing like crazy, have no common ground. AND all of them are saying your ankles are open and nobody is arguing about it. That's like a miracle.

LOL. I love this.

 

[Josh Matta]

"Ankles not bent". I have looked at other footage and this is not the case. Any more angle, and my knees will touch the ski tips, the angle is something like 25 degrees, eyeballing it.

I have tested some other suggestions and all of them are a miss, except for outside ski pressure. The timing of the turn is way late and this could be something impossible to fix, since I have a slow reaction time (always did).

On a related note, the short turn is more problematic. The only thing I can see is that I make the edge angle from knees, as opposed to hips. Supposed to be a good thing, right? Kind of like mogul skiing. Then, the timing and dynamics is all wrong.

***

This is where coaching and correcting things based on outside observation hit a limit, I think. I have experience with another sport and there's really no "coaching" there. Just years of training and trying. Kids eventually figure it out on their own (the ones that don't simply get weeded out). Coaches just make sure kids don't goof off

again so many assumptions. Your reaction time is meaningless. You could have the slowest twitch muscles in the world and still be a a great skier. Your edge angle comes from the knee because of how open your ankles, and how bent your knees are, this is not a good thing in any form of skiing, and if someone told you this Id stop listening to their ideas about skiing forever.

Not a single skiers just get there on their own, there really is no limit to hit. Doing the wrongs things forever is meaningless to getting better. Instead of saying nothing can be done learn to move your body in the correct way despite how awkward they will feel.

If my coaching in person was all about just telling people how great they are(seemingly what you want), no one would ever get better. My entire coaching has always been you suck and lets learn to suck less. Over time of sucking less and less each day people eventually get better, some of them at this point in time are great skiers but if I started with your great, and lets just improve your greatness, they would still be thoroughly mediocre.

 

[LiquidFeet]

"Ankles not bent". I have looked at other footage and this is not the case. Any more angle, and my knees will touch the ski tips, the angle is something like 25 degrees, eyeballing it....
This is where coaching and correcting things based on outside observation hit a limit, I think.

Your form is strongly out of whack. We have done what we could to help you fix it, and you choose to think we are wrong about the diagnosis in the first place. Clearly you see something different from what we all see. I can understand that sometimes the truth hurts. I hope one day you'll be able to address the issues in your ski form in a more productive way than denying the problem is there.

 

[nunyabiz]

"Ankles not bent". I have looked at other footage and this is not the case. Any more angle, and my knees will touch the ski tips, the angle is something like 25 degrees, eyeballing it.

You mention looking at 'other footage'. You should post that footage, it sounds like you're skiing differently than in the stuff you posted initially where your ankles are nearly 90 degrees.

 

[asolo]

again so many assumptions. Your reaction time is meaningless. You could have the slowest twitch muscles in the world and still be a a great skier. Your edge angle comes from the knee because of how open your ankles, and how bent your knees are, this is not a good thing in any form of skiing, and if someone told you this Id stop listening to their ideas about skiing forever.

Not a single skiers just get there on their own, there really is no limit to hit. Doing the wrongs things forever is meaningless to getting better. Instead of saying nothing can be done learn to move your body in the correct way despite how awkward they will feel.

If my coaching in person was all about just telling people how great they are(seemingly what you want), no one would ever get better. My entire coaching has always been you suck and lets learn to suck less. Over time of sucking less and less each day people eventually get better, some of them at this point in time are great skiers but if I started with your great, and lets just improve your greatness, they would still be thoroughly mediocre.

Ankle's not "open":

View attachment 89402

(well, I does depend on the turn, of course, you seem to latch on a part where it's skiing a straight line with no speed)

In shorter turns the knee is rotated and rolled way in; even closer to the top sheet. They say it's the way. Does not feel right for sure, throwing skis around every which way and bending at weird angles.

Mind, the skiing is not any good, it's just that the advice is off mark.

 

[LiquidFeet]

@asolo, a side view of your feet and lower legs is required to validate whether or not your ankle is bent forward. Other views fail to show the angle clearly. A "side view" means the camera is pointed at the feet from their side, as in the image below. This is you skiing by the camera in the video you provided. Notice that your legs go straight up. They shouldn't. These are "open" ankles. They throw everything off in your form.


Do you have a side view showing your ankles bent forward as you described with these words: "Any more angle, and my knees will touch the ski tips, the angle is something like 25 degrees"?

If you do have such an image, it might look something like these images below, where the lower legs go up from the skis at a forward tilt. These skier's ankles are bent forward, "closed," so that the lower legs lean forward. This is good, and what people are suggesting you work on doing.





terminology note: "bent forward" means "closed," also known as "dorsiflexed." Like so:

 

[S.H.]

Ankle's not "open":

View attachment 89402

(well, I does depend on the turn, of course, you seem to latch on a part where it's skiing a straight line with no speed)

In shorter turns the knee is rotated and rolled way in; even closer to the top sheet. They say it's the way. Does not feel right for sure, throwing skis around every which way and bending at weird angles.

Mind, the skiing is not any good, it's just that the advice is off mark.

This is right past the gate. Ankles are ... not closed.

 

[CoPow]

One thing is that it's not just at one point of the turn you need to close the ankles. You don't want to lose the flexion at the entry of the turn. At the end of the turn you want to be on the tails of the skis more, especially when carving. Then at the start of the turn you go back fore. It's bad if you lose the flexion when you do that even for 0.1 second. It doesn't matter your ankles are closed the whole 10 seconds after that if you miss that crucial moment.

Like I said, pressure the heels. And open your toes and hyper extend upwards in your boots.

 

[asolo]

If you do have such an image, it might look something like these images below, where the lower legs go up from the skis at a tilt. These skier's ankles are bent forward so that the lower legs lean forward.

The image is right above in the post you are responding to (don't have a side view, sorry).

 

[LiquidFeet]

@asolo, unfortunately your photo does nothing to support your claim. A side view is the only view that will show what your ankles are doing.

If you are looking at images like that one you just posted, when you claim "Any more angle, and my knees will touch the ski tips," no wonder you don't believe us.

It's common for people to not understand how camera views distort what we see, so when you don't recognize the importance of a side view, that isn't all that odd. But the rest of what's been going on in this thread indicates that you don't understand what a closed/bent ankle is, and that you don't understand what a lower leg that's tilted forward is. I'm wondering if English is your second language and there's a communication issue. Is English a second language for you? That would explain a lot.

In any event, you might benefit from re-reading the posts from the start until you understand what we are telling you and recognize our efforts are potentially helpful.

If you get your ankles closed/bent forward, that will get your lower legs tilted forward and your stance will improve. You will have more ability to fine-tune your mechanics so you can get better times in the gates. You will have the potential to look like and ski like that better racer you compared yourself to, something you mentioned in an earlier post. There are other things you need to work on, but many in this thread believe this to be the thing you need to fix first.

 

[Mike King]

@asolo it's not surprising that you are resisting the advice you've received. Your movement patterns are deeply ingrained. They developed as a result of your skiing. You adopted them because they worked. They've influenced your belief system. And now they are limiting your ability to progress.

This is why, in part, it is so difficult to progress. Even though you have expressed a desire to progress and an apparent willingness to change, you still have yet to accept that some of your fundamental beliefs are, in fact, the very things that are limiting your progress. Until you are willing to challenge EVERYTHING you believe about skiing, and willing to challenge EVERYTHING you believe you are accomplishing in your movement patterns, you won't really make changes, give them enough time to solidify, and be able to evaluate whether they really make a difference or not.

You are stuck at the first phase of moving to the next level of skiing. Without acceptance that your beliefs are possibly incorrect, you won't try something different or give it a chance to make a difference. It took me years to figure this out. It also took an amazing coach to beat it into my head.

On the specific point that you seem to be stuck on, consider this: the ideal stance is one where the angle of the shin mimics the angle of the spine. Do you see any point in your video where this is the case? There's a huge discrepancy in virtually all phases of your turns. Is that enough evidence for you? Perhaps you might go out and explore what more equal angles might feel like, and what that might do for your ability to move, manipulate the ski, and obtain more ski performance...

If you don't want to accept the previous specific point I've outlined above, please consider the point about acceptance and belief. That's the real important point here.

Dave Lyons, a PSIA demo team member and race coach in the Northwest, asks his athletes before they do a run "Same or different?" An answer of same suggests that you are unwilling to experiment and change. The growth answer is different. You aren't going to get better, or faster, doing the same thing. Change is the way to figure it out...

Mike

 

[cantunamunch]

you won't really make changes, give them enough time to solidify, and be able to evaluate whether they really make a difference or not.

The unfortunate consequence of accepting all that is said is that he is looking at a huge chunk of time investment. With 20-30 day seasons, rebuilding to where he wants to be is optimistically a 5 season proposition.

 

[Mike King]

The unfortunate consequence of accepting all that is said is that he is looking at a huge chunk of time investment. With 20-30 day seasons, rebuilding to where he wants to be is optimistically a 5 season proposition.

If not more.

 

[bbinder]

I want to express appreciation and admiration for everyone who has been (patiently) offering advice in this thread. I wish that I had video of myself to show you all - I think that the advice would be worthwhile.

 

[ScotsSkier]

go your own way, aim at your 10,000 hours - ingraining the wrong things into muscle memory.....

Then, when you realize you have not got any faster, remember the old adage...

"when all else fails, do what your coach told you in the first place"

And, as a professional L200 coach and Masters racer who focuses purely on on coaching Masters racers - and whose athletes have achieved multiple national and FIS podiums by taking on board my coaching inputs - I can assure you my role is not about stopping athletes from "goofing off" ......

 

[Chris V.]

Asolo, I've stayed out of this discussion until now. I'll try to restrain myself and be brief. Bottom line--others have commented that you're a good skier. But of course you started this thread because you were interested in improving, and that's a great thing. It takes courage to put up video. No one except maybe Mikaela is perfect, least of all us hackers that hang around this forum.

It seems like the movement analysis aspect of this thread has run its course. Getting online feedback on your movement patterns is beneficial, but has its limits. I would urge as your next step getting some quality real live instruction.

In that setting, an instructor has a much better opportunity to observe your skiing under a variety of conditions. Sometimes isolating strengths and weaknesses calls for backing off as to the terrain, and doing everything more slowly. Sometimes it requires a "stress test." There will be much better opportunities for give and take, for prescribing drills, and for seeing what effect they have. After doing that I'd urge you to practice the hell out of what you learn, and encourage you to come back here with new video.

Finally, as Mark Elling titled one chapter of his book, "You CAN blame your gear...sometimes." What you've posted, and what others have observed, raise the POSSIBILITY of alignment issues. This is COMMON. Speaking from personal experience, a well qualified alignment analysis can pay big returns. Now, finding the right person to do this can be challenging....

 

[Sanity]

Am I late for the hanging? Of all the issues to go to the mattresses over, I find it odd that closed ankles are it. Bob Barnes has been railing against the "old and tired" mantra of getting forward for years. Ski boots have been evolving with less forward lean, and many support the idea of skiing centered without lots of shin pressure. A stiff boot will not bend without weight. Weight on the cuff puts forward pressure on the ski. This forward pressure was necessary to bend the tip to carve back in the old days with straight skis. Now with parabolic skis a centered stance is often desirable. Carving happens by tipping the ski. The tipped ski bends because of its sidecut. Being centered and tipping the ski is all that's necessary to bend the ski. Forward pressure causes the tip to dig into the snow and slows you down, as some prominent members of Epic argued not long ago. Also, the tails can wash out without a centered stance which breaks the edge locked carve.

During transition there often isn't much weight on the skis, so the boots can not be flexed. By physics, the racer is aft at the end of the turn, so the boots won't be flexed there either. Many racers talk about moving forward during transition to bend the tip at the top of the turn. Phil McNichol talks quite a bit about this, though I remember this community soundly rejecting those ideas back in the Epic days. On a modern, stiff boot, with a centered stance, there will not be much visible flexing of the ankles. The only reason to crank down on those cuffs is to bend the tip of the ski to make a turn that is sharper than the turning radius of the ski which is often the case by design on a racing course with FIS approved skis. Is it better to bend that tip for an arc to arc carve and risk slowing from the extra forward pressure, or is it better to come in with some stivot type entry for sharp turns? I remember seeing a paper showing not much difference between the two methods, so I don't think the verdict is out yet. Bottom line, whether closing the ankles is faster or slower may be entirely dependent on the course and the skis. If he's failing to make a turn (which wasn't apparent), then he may need to get more forward to bend the ski more, otherwise a centered stance with minimal boot flexing would be faster. So, what gives? Is this long term memory loss, or is the urge to stomp on a defiant student just so overwhelming? Feel free to dig back through Epic threads for any doubt that many of you were squarely on the opposite side of this argument not long ago when the group thinking was blowing a different direction with Bob Barnes at the helm.