Is there a women's fit boot that doesn't push a woman forward?

[Lady_Salina]

So I have two issues since switching to women's boots in 2004. I blow them apart, no matter how stiff or quality they are supposed to be and they push me too far forward, i constantly have to push my calves backward to stay centered. My last pair of Lange surefoots my issue was the heel is so far behind my calf that I couldn't seat it in the heel socket, had the fitter put in material behind the heel to make the angle between the heel and the calf less (straighter), worked but I felt too far forward from the day I put them on. Prior I had the trinity 110 Ficsher. I solved the too far forward issue in the molding process by pushing back on the calves as they molded them. This deformed the shell (you could see the bend backward at the lower calf) but it worked, Loved my position but blew the buckles and boot apart ever year even when I wasn't doing 150 days a year. The surefoot lasted only 1 season also but wouldn't have made it that far if they hadn't redone the liner half way through when it was tearing and breaking apart. Prior to these two pairs I had Head Dreamthang 10, still have them and they held up, I actually pulled them out of storage to finish my last couple weeks this year cause I didn't want to buy new boots until the beginning of the coming season.

My favorite ever boots that I still have and held up were the V3 DAchstein race foam fitted boot. They worked, had new liners 3 times made by the same excellent boot fitter who looked after my gear for me through the 90.s. I need a new boot. No one wants to put me in a man's boot due to my narrow heel but I'm tired of buckles falling off, blowing apart etc, screws coming loose, needing to constantly repair my boots and replace them in a year. I am hoping for a boot that might last 300 days, maybe I want too much but $1000.00 a year from ski school wages is alot. Now if the boot fit I wouldn't mind as much.

What I read is women's boots are shorter cause our legs are shorter, well I'm pretty sure my leg is longer ( know it is) then my taller husband. It is also very very strong and I do have a large calf muscle, very solid, but don't recall ever being bothered by it in a man's boot or not being able to do them up. The one tech at Surefoot last year did pull out a dark green boot (I didn't look at make, not too bright sometimes) put it on me and asked, how do you feel in this, and it felt great. he smiled, i think he knew I should be in it but couldn't give me a whole new boot so worked with what I had. If I were smart I'd have taken a picture to have a better idea what I need this year.

Anyhow back to the question... What i have read is women's boots are shorter to accommodate shorter legs, more flexible forward to encourage a forward bent ankle and more weight forward on the ski for lighter weight ( i am not lighter weight, legs are way to muscular, never weigh light) and a narrower heel to accommodate the woman's narrow heel, and softer easier closing buckles to stop broken nails. I don't care about nails i want my buckles to hold up. so with this criteria, is there a woman's boot out there that would meet the narrow heel flt, not be made with more forward flex (several courses I have repeatedly been told i'm too far forward try a different boot going all the way back to the good women's Raichle in the 90's lol) which I was never told when i had the Fischer but it just didn't last either and was soo cold. In the past 5 years i have a been a new boot or liner every year, prior to this my boots tended to last a few years even through teaching full time and many many ski days a year.

 

[RuleMiHa]

What about the Head Raptor 110 W. Low volume, very narrow heel pocket. Or the Lange 110 RX LV. Both are structurally as sound as the men's versions (essentially the same just short cuff), differences are in the liner. The Lange has 12 degrees of forward lean which would keep you back vs. the 16 degrees of forward lean in the head.

Mostly though it sounds like you need a better boot fitter who pays more attention to your anatomy, skiing style, and needs than how you pee. But that's just MHO!

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Why do you want a "women's boot" why not just get a race boot. When you look around your locker room you must see lots of women wearing them. The better women anyway. Want a narrow heel? Race boot. Want quality buckles? Race boot. If you need cute colors and a mouse fur liner, you'll have to look elsewhere though.

 

[Lady_Salina]

12 degrees would be much much better lol. Thanks I am looking for ideas. I love that they are structurally sound. I am looking for ideas of where to start and will be seeing an independent boot fitter and spending my first two weeks in November hopefully getting into a new boot and comfortable by the time I start with clients on US thanksgiving.

 

[Lady_Salina]

Why do you want a "women's boot" why not just get a race boot. When you look around your locker room you must see lots of women wearing them. The better women anyway. Want a narrow heel? Race boot. Want quality buckles? Race boot. If you need cute colors and a mouse fur liner, you'll have to look elsewhere though.

I really don't see women in non specific women's boots anymore and my fitters for the past 4 years have said noo, no, women need a women's boot. I really feel they say this blindly without looking at my leg and foot, hence I'm here for some ideas. I don't think my leg is like a typical woman's to be honest but I know my very narrow heel is and was an issue when I wore men's race boots. I do want something that is not horribly uncomfortable, like a true race boot, and meant to be worn all day for the season. Oh i would be fine in a man's boot if it is suitable and don't really understand that it won't be if I feel comfortable in it. So right now I'm just asking is there a woman's boot that is not designed to push me forward. If not, I may go back to ficsher and push them straighter try out lots of men's boots too. I don't have long though to get a boot and get it worked in to comfortable. I have only 2 weeks max without having to be in them 7 hours a day with clients or on courses through December.

 

[David Chaus]

LS, if you don’t need the shorter cuff and easier forward flex that women’s specific boots offer, why use a women’s specific boot?
In addition to the Lange RX or Head Raptor, it seems like an LV Tecnica might be worth a look.

 

[RuleMiHa]

I really don't see women in non specific women's boots anymore and my fitters for the past 4 years have said noo, no, women need a women's boot. I really feel they say this blindly without looking at my leg and foot, hence I'm here for some ideas. I don't think my leg is like a typical woman's to be honest but I know my very narrow heel is and was an issue when I wore men's race boots. I do want something that is not horribly uncomfortable, like a true race boot, and meant to be worn all day for the season. Oh i would be fine in a man's boot if it is suitable and don't really understand that it won't be if I feel comfortable in it. So right now I'm just asking is there a woman's boot that is not designed to push me forward. If not, I may go back to ficsher and push them straighter try out lots of men's boots too. I don't have long though to get a boot and get it worked in to comfortable. I have only 2 weeks max without having to be in them 7 hours a day with clients or on courses through December.

Both the Lange and Head I mentioned and I think the Technica are actually structurally identical to the men's boot. No extra forward lean. It's sounds like you might need a shim under your toe. That would at least stop the boot abuse which may have led to early breakdown in some of your other boots.

I still think the most important thing is a better boot fitter.

 

[RuleMiHa]

Or a solid soled boot that could be planed to give you reverse delta if the toe shim(gas pedal) under the binding wasn't a good option.

 

[Jilly]

Has Barry recommended anything to you? I need the shorter cuff, so went with the Atomic Hawx, but he did tell me to get the stiffest one. I have wide toes as well.

I trust his judgement. I'm sure he'll be back in WB this winter.

 

[Lady_Salina]

no Jilly, I talked to him at the end of the season and plan to consult with him when I return in November. Right now I am trying to work out what the issues I've had in the past 5 years have been so I know what not to do. I do believe my legs aren't what other women's are but they aren't men's either lol. I have a longer lower leg than most and maybe don't need that shorter boot, but I have very thick legs, small heel and ankle, muscular calves and thighs, women's boots feel short to me and i never had trouble with the taller boots or cramping and maybe a taller boot would hold my heel down better. I'm going to see what the bootfitters say about something that isn't designed to put me forward (as I read most women's boots are designed to move you more forward than a man's) as general feedback on courses and sessions when with level 4/examiners is I am too far forward on my toes. My knees when bent and I look down easily go in front of my toes when i bend. Over the next two month's I will pop in and out of ski shops trying on and walking in a few of the suggestions to see how they feel on my legs and where i feel my weight when keeping them flat on the floor and rolling them. I could write a novel of what I'm trying to do lol. I want a ski boot that will allow my heel to stay in the socket so that i can effectively pressure the ball of my foot (toes) down and up as required to stay centered. If this pressure causes my leg to crumple the front of the boot and put me forward and then the heel lifts well, it's not a good thing i have to compensate with a straightening back to get pressure back on the heel, and other unwanted moves of the pelvis or joints to counter it. I wish I could purchase them before getting to Whistler and having to go with what Barry suggests, that's my only issue with seeing an independent fitter and not having a pair to wear when I arrive. I threw out my boots at the end of last season.

 

[KingGrump]

LS, I believe I have skied a few days here and there with you. So I think I have a clear picture of how you ski.
Like Epic said, go with a uni-sex race boot.

The way you skied, you need a 130 boot rather than a 110. The 110s are way too soft for you. That's why they are falling apart every season. You can always soften a 130 if you find it too stiff, but the boot is a better quality boot. Shell, liner and buckles.
The race boots are generally narrower to accommodate your narrower heel. You can always punch/.blow out the fore foot to fit.

Most women's boots have shorter cuffs not due to women having shorter lower legs. Rather to accommodate the larger calf muscle of a woman's leg. Won't know the fit of the cuff until you try on the boot. If you have issue with the cuff, the boot fitter can flare/expand the upper cuff section for you.
BTW, I have seen shorter men with large calf being put into women's boot with no issues.

Last, get a booster strap. Will tie the cuff to your lower leg for better response.

 

[Lady_Salina]

I'm leaning that way Bruce, on the stiffer boot to see if that makes the difference. Maybe I'll start there, just go see what's out there in a stiffer flex and how it feels on. I don't know if I can get a woman's boot in a higher flex rating then 110 and i believe the flex rating is mainly a side to side stiffness not fore aft?, but guess I should get out and play with them I'll bet a man's boot is stiffer fore aft. Boot fitters... what is flex measuring, over all stiffness of the plastic? I did tear the lange boot I was in also from surefoot, would a stiffer boot be less likely to tear as it's stronger yet still pliable?

 

[RuleMiHa]

I'm leaning that way Bruce, on the stiffer boot to see if that makes the difference. Maybe I'll start there, just go see what's out there in a stiffer flex and how it feels on. I don't know if I can get a woman's boot in a higher flex rating then 110 and i believe the flex rating is mainly a side to side stiffness not fore aft?, but guess I should get out and play with them I'll bet a man's boot is stiffer fore aft. Boot fitters... what is flex measuring, over all stiffness of the plastic? I did tear the lange boot I was in also from surefoot, would a stiffer boot be less likely to tear as it's stronger yet still pliable?

For the top Head Raptor women's boot and the Lange RS SC boot the difference in flex comes from the height of the boot (shorter boot, lower flex rating). They are otherwise the same boot. Different boots are different and boot design affects many things. Certain after market liners will change stiffness.

Every time you mention women's boots I want to ask you what my mother asked me in high school. "Just because everyone else jumped off a bridge......".

You've made a compelling argument that women's boots aren't strong enough for you and that anatomically they are incorrect for you. Someone who has seen you ski thinks you need men's boots (but if your calf is wide, a taller boot will push you forward).

I ski on "men's" skis and am shopping for Swarovski crystals to bling them out this year. Just Sayin'.

 

[Philpug]

What shell size are we in? The shorter the shell, the more ramp in the boot board. Most high end womens boots which usually max out at a 100 or 115 flex are the same as the mens counter part in the clog (the lower) with only sometimes the cuff being slightly lower and many the liner being the difference. Tecnica's cuff on the new women's Mach is slightly more upright (and lower) than the men's counterpart.

The Head Raptor and Lange's are getting compared here as two options, both are dramatically different in their stance, out of the two, the Lange is significantly more upright in stance, the bootboard has less ramp and the cuff is more verticle.

It was also mentioned that you might need to look outside the boot and look at the delta of the binding to help you get the angles you are looking for.

 

[Lady_Salina]

Thanks Rule, just trying to see if there's a perfect boot out there lol. I think it matters at what height the calf is wide too so I know I have to try them on. Obviously a muscular larger man would have calves as wide as mine around, but the idea is there's would be wide at a different height and widen out later than a woman's. In any event I'm mainly looking for suitable ideas to try out to get a different feel.

 

[Lady_Salina]

I'm in a 25.5 shell Phil, i measure length larger but they can't put me in the 26.5 or i swim so I live with occasionally losing the large toe nail. (twice now after long western seasons). Did not lose it in the sure foots, but did damage it some. I expect my feet won't be pretty after being crammed in the ski boot 7 days a week but for the effort i'm hoping to get a better ski stance lol.

 

[Lady_Salina]

On the road for the day, will check back tonight

 

[BS Slarver]

@KingGrump - is spot on but YMMV !

Typically..... not always, a ladies calf muscle is lower and different for most women than men even if they have the same inseam. 2nd, throw in a women’s Q angle.

I’ll 2nd Phil’s pick for the tecnica and specifically the ladies Mach1 LV Pro, Perhaps a BD liner to get it stiffer.

 

[Jilly]

I remember years ago that the fitter stated to me....oh instructor, you need to stand up more in your boots. Put me in the Technica Diablo Pro (N/A now). But it was the wrong boot for my feet.

The Hawk I have can be changed to 3 different forward leans. So far I've left it in the middle.

And Lady_Salina - first summer with BOTH big toe nails for me!!

 

[Sibhusky]

The first season I had my Heads I got a black toe while the boot packed. Stuck my foot in beginning of the next season, said we're not doing this again. Blew out the shell just a smidge over that toe and it was perfect.

I use women's boots because of the cuff. Even when I weighed 60 pounds less it was a huge issue, pretty much the only issue, until I could get a woman's boot. I was using buckle extensions and still having circulation issues.