I think I'm getting the hang of it...

[Fuller]

Well yesterday morning was a blast. The main lift to the top quit right after I got off so the whole backside was open to the 200 or so skiers that made it there. My favorite runs all had about 4 inches of powder on top and I never had to share a chair lift. It pays to get on the mountain early!

Checkpoints:

When conditions are ideal I can adopt a more upright posture and a fairly narrow stance that allows me to lift the inside ski with just a "shrug" of the hip, it's easy to keep the tip lead to a minimum and get the inside hip into the turn. I really feel in control and able to get from edge to edge pretty quickly. I might even look good doing it but I need the video to tell.

When things start getting more 3D and steeper I drift away from that loose, upright posture and get a little lower in general. I have to really work to keep the inside ski behaving correctly. I can do it but my stance gets a bit wider and I feel like more of an intermediate skier. Still, I'm pleased with my progress on this type of terrain. I can maintain a nice edge, round out the turns and cut through the day's end chop that we all have to deal with.

I did take a couple of runs down the East Rim Face which is off piste, lightly gladed and kinda steep. A place where there are lots a little chutes that direct you around the trees and too many ruts in the open area to just power through. I just didn't find a good way to control my speed and went back to beginner status again. There's a whole lot of terrain at Whitefish like that and I really want to be able to get out there with confidence. I've got the basics down, I need stop being so defensive.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

I don't like the description, "lift the inside ski with a shrug of the hip". I want to be lightening my inside ski by flexing that knee and ankle AND EDGING THAT SKI. Without involving the little toe edging on the inside ski, I'm not likely to be edging my outside ski sufficiently. If I'm not flexing that knee and ankle, I'm unable to roll the foot toward the little toe edge.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Not having an excessive lead problem in the very firm snow here right now. (Well, at least nothing I can see without vid.) Ski doesn't penetrate far so there's not a lot of difference in the drag between inside and outside ski.

I take your point that there's always more to do.

If you have a problem in 3D snow, you probably also have the same problem in firm conditions but the snow isn't showing you that you have the problem.

 

[geepers]

If you have a problem in 3D snow, you probably also have the same problem in firm conditions but the snow isn't showing you that you have the problem.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Fuller]

@Kneale Brownson

I know that is the popular saying and I don't discount it. But could it not also be possible that firm conditions require skills A,B & C but challenging conditions require skills A, B, C, & D? Something to think about.

The logic behind the original statement means that if there is no D, then you need to be damn near perfect on A,B, & C before you can master the difficult conditions. I am far from perfect but I would have hoped my improvements would have carried me off piste in a better fashion.

The hip shrug was really just an exercise for me experimenting with different things. I was impressed with the effect I was getting from such little input and it kept my stance much narrower and reduced my base of support. I think it's useful in that it illustrates the advantage of having control of your balance without looking like a cowboy. I have suffered greatly from a too wide stance and it was one of the things I had to banish before I got better. I agree the tipping and edging of the inside ski is a more powerful tool.

I did devote the entire morning to mastering the Up and Over drill. At first I couldn't get the downhill ski off the snow but after a while I could traverse a bit on my outside edge. Because the inside ski has a built in tip lead you need to "step up" and into the hill to maintain an edge. A new motor pattern for me for sure.

Thanks for the help...

 

[geepers]

7cm of fresh pow this morning - about perfect for a test.

Seemed my issue was being a split second late in bringing weight back from the tip at the top to middle by the fall line. Unlikely that a single morning skiing has permanently fixed the issue but no outside ski getting left behind after that adjustment.

After 3 days of working hard for an edge in firm, scrapped snow it was great to ride around on a pair of rails today.

 

[geepers]

@Kneale Brownson

I know that is the popular saying and I don't discount it. But could it not also be possible that firm conditions require skills A,B & C but challenging conditions require skills A, B, C, & D? Something to think about.

The logic behind the original statement means that if there is no D, then you need to be damn near perfect on A,B, & C before you can master the difficult conditions. I am far from perfect but I would have hoped my improvements would have carried me off piste in a better fashion.

The hip shrug was really just an exercise for me experimenting with different things. I was impressed with the effect I was getting from such little input and it kept my stance much narrower and reduced my base of support. I think it's useful in that it illustrates the advantage of having control of your balance without looking like a cowboy. I have suffered greatly from a too wide stance and it was one of the things I had to banish before I got better. I agree the tipping and edging of the inside ski is a more powerful tool.

I did devote the entire morning to mastering the Up and Over drill. At first I couldn't get the downhill ski off the snow but after a while I could traverse a bit on my outside edge. Because the inside ski has a built in tip lead you need to "step up" and into the hill to maintain an edge. A new motor pattern for me for sure.

Thanks for the help...

More chopped up conditions, with large piles of loose snow yesterday. Which presented its own set of challenges, encountering one of those piles at different parts of the turn with the resultant large increase in drag testing balance over that outside ski.

I think I'd agree that there is not necessarily a D. If ABC are done correctly then it doesn't matter if the snow is firm or soft. If the fore/aft balance on the outside ski is spot on throughout the turn then there's no conscious holding back of the inside foot. Well, that's what I'm finding.

My main thought at the top of the turn is platform angle. The ski holds to generate lots of edge above the fall line, extend outside leg into the apex, and keep upper body upright.

It all happens very quickly and then it's the next turn. It's like trying to make a great golf swing every couple of seconds.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

You’re standing still on relatively level ground when you swing and you generally only swing in one direction.

Good fundamentals should work in most circumstances.

 

[Fuller]

@Kneale Brownson

I know that is the popular saying and I don't discount it. But could it not also be possible that firm conditions require skills A,B & C but challenging conditions require skills A, B, C, & D? Something to think about.

The logic behind the original statement means that if there is no D, then you need to be damn near perfect on A,B, & C before you can master the difficult conditions. I am far from perfect but I would have hoped my improvements would have carried me off piste in a better fashion.

The hip shrug was really just an exercise for me experimenting with different things. I was impressed with the effect I was getting from such little input and it kept my stance much narrower and reduced my base of support. I think it's useful in that it illustrates the advantage of having control of your balance without looking like a cowboy. I have suffered greatly from a too wide stance and it was one of the things I had to banish before I got better. I agree the tipping and edging of the inside ski is a more powerful tool.

I did devote the entire morning to mastering the Up and Over drill. At first I couldn't get the downhill ski off the snow but after a while I could traverse a bit on my outside edge. Because the inside ski has a built in tip lead you need to "step up" and into the hill to maintain an edge. A new motor pattern for me for sure.

Thanks for the help...

There's one other possibility here that I hadn't (or didn't want to) consider: perhaps my assumption that I had successfully learned AB&C was incorrect. Self diagnosis and self audit inevitably leads to self congratulatory success. I won't show you the video but let's just say sometimes one just has to accept the truth. I felt good, I was having fun but I still have work to do. So if there is a "D" I don't care right now because AB&C isn't reliably correct yet.

My good news is that with some competent professional advice I've already recovered from the embarrassment and made some progress. It pays to make sure you are doing a drill correctly or applying a helpful tip in the right way. As an example I had been doing my pivot slip drills in a way that allowed my outside hip to be pointed down hill instead of my jacket zipper. The drill is supposed to teach upper / lower body separation but the way I was doing it I was promoting my outside shoulders to swing back and forth. It took about 10 thousand vertical feet of doing it correctly to get it to "stick" in my regular skiing. I hope it's still there tomorrow!

 

[Fuller]

It's been really cold here and not a whole lot of new snow. The perfect time to stay down low and drill baby drill. My group instructor said I was doing "almost a textbook example of the pivot slip" in the lesson yesterday. A little ego boost never hurts. Did some more today and really had great control of my rotation speed and kept to a 6 ft corridor. It became playful and intuitive after a while - I think it may become my specialty!

Ditched the poles for the rest of the morning. Started out with the Schloppy Drill - apparently my brain can't handle holding my upper body like John Travolta and still be edging the skis properly. Something is not quite right but I don't know what it is. The exaggeration of the upper body "pose" seems like a detriment to my skiing. It's probably a lack of repetition more than anything, I'll put in a few more sessions and see what happens.

Did a bunch of javelin turns which were OK but not "textbook" by any means. The lifted ski is supposed to be held above the shovel of the outside ski - is it cheating to rotate your femur and ankle to get it there? How much does the inside hip contribute to getting that ski placed correctly? Again, needs practice.

Again, with no poles I played with edging both skis equally with a flex to release, morphed that to a strong inside pull back and tip. My relationship with tipping the inside ski hasn't been entirely positive in the past. A lot of times it just seems like it gets me to a blocking sideways position that just slows me down more than intended. I think that I just wasn't forward enough, or not enough angulation or perhaps bringing the hip back with it.

After I got the poles back something changed for the better because all of a sudden the aggressive tipping felt great. My stance tightened up and I was going edge to edge very quickly. It felt really good, it felt like good skiing (at least the way my mind imagines it) - I have no idea if it was or not, there were no witnesses!

Spent the afternoon with the wife and continued to feel really on top of it. Snowing like stink here in the valley and they've upped the forecast for this storm cycle. I'm ready.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....
Ditched the poles for the rest of the morning. Started out with the Schloppy Drill - apparently my brain can't handle holding my upper body like John Travolta and still be edging the skis properly. Something is not quite right but I don't know what it is. The exaggeration of the upper body "pose" seems like a detriment to my skiing. It's probably a lack of repetition more than anything, I'll put in a few more sessions and see what happens.....

For excellent angulation drills, including the Schlopy, check out this video by Warren Smith.

 

[Fuller]

Status report for those who are interested...

I think I have finally severed the connection between my upper body and my ankles/knees/hips. In most terrain I can begin and end my turns with my feet and keep the top half "quiet" and under control. It's not textbook yet but it sure makes things feel better on the snow and my weekly group instructor gives me props for it. Being quick from edge to edge is a great playful feeling, its fun to dance around and thru the piles of skied off snow with nice rounded turns.

Along with that is an ongoing experiment with the inside ski tipping and pull back. In easy soft snow I get a better result from thinking about tipping both skis at the same time and rate. When it gets firmer and steeper a more obvious inside "pmts" move has a better result. I need to refine my approach here. Today I was having some problems and I realized I had not used all the tools in the box yet. Knowing exactly how to execute each turn (and they are all different) as they come to you is part of the flow. I like the feeling of flowing or dancing down the mountain.

I've been doing better with the too wide stance but it is quickly becoming my most important thing to work on. It may be the most stubborn pattern of all to eradicate. I have tried...

Making it a single focus in my everyday skiing.
Increasing my perceived weight distribution to the downhill ski.
Using the cat tracks and run outs to practice clicking my boots together.
I haven't done the hold the glove between your knees drill.

I worry that it makes me look down at my skis all the time, which i don't think is ideal but when I don't think about it at all - it gets a bit messy.

Any "out of the box" therapy that I haven't considered yet or should I just devote an entire day to reprogramming my brain with the usual methods?

 

[Josh Matta]

any video of you skiing?

if you are able to do flamigo and javelin turns consistenly down light blue runs, you stance will naturally narrow once that balance is acquired. Even perceiving more weight to the downhill(outside) ski is typically not enough. IF you are able to balance on your outside ski and you still think your stance is too wide, then its means you have pretty large Q angle.

DONT do the gloves between your knees drill, its does nothing useful, and probably actually hurts people skiing as they get forced to a frame if their alignment isnt slightly bow legged. You dont need your feet touching to be quick.

 

[LiquidFeet]

@Fuller,

If the wide stance continues to annoy you, you might work on lifting the tail of the inside ski at different points during your turns. Lift it just a little. Or work on lifting the whole inside ski, just enough to clear the snow. You can do this in little short bits, or for a whole turn. If you lift the whole ski, It's very important to keep it parallel to the snow. Most people start with lifting the tail.

Do not allow yourself to lift its tip only, and don't lift the whole ski with the tip higher than the tail. If either of these happen, stop, push reset, and try again. You can set your final goal to be lifting the whole ski a little, keeping it parallel to the snow, for whole turns, alternating with each turn for an entire run. Being able to do this will take some time, but you don't need video to confirm that it's working. You can self-check for success. Just take a quick peek down at the ski.

Why do this at all? There are a number of benefits. It's pretty much impossible to put your balance on the outside ski from a wide stance. Lifting the inside ski's tail or the whole thing negates the need for the wide stance. Whatever function that wide stance was offering is no longer needed once you can ski on the outside ski all by itself.

There are other benefits. Being able to balance on the outside ski forces you to properly manage your upper body's position relative to that base of support. You'll automatically get the amount of angulation needed. If you are "sitting" back, lifting the tail of the inside ski fixes that. Your fore-aft balance will improve. And on icy days, balancing totally on the outside ski increases the likelihood that you'll be able to maintain grip.