How close is too close?

[François Pugh]

A few posts here have me thinking, "NASCAR skiers be drafting."

 

[falcon_o]

If there's more than 5 feet I'll pass stopped skiers/riders on the woods/edge of trail side because I know they're not nearly as likely to push off in that direction. That way I give then the entire rest of the trail should they suddenly push off without looking back up hill. If the trail's wide open with no other people I'll take the other side. If there's other traffic scattered around the middle I'm passing you or them on the trail edge side rather than the middle trail side if there's any room at all there... because nobody pushes off in that direction...

How much more than 5 feet and at what speed? 5 feet = 152 cm so less than a ski length for many and it would take very little movement of the stopped skier to result in a collision. Hard to believe a trail could be so crowded there wouldn't be more room to pass on the right. If that stopped skier should move to the left you have no where to bail.

 

[Seldomski]

Passing on the woods side for a crowded run reduces the amount of people you need to evaluate. Are they moving or not? The trees don't move and like he says, it is very unlikely that the stopped people will proceed immediately toward the trees vs. toward the middle of the run.

Not saying it is the safest/nicest way to go, just the easiest for the moving skier (who doesn't want to slow down) to evaluate.

 

[falcon_o]

Passing on the woods side for a crowded run reduces the amount of people you need to evaluate. Are they moving or not? The trees don't move and like he says, it is very unlikely that the stopped people will proceed immediately toward the trees vs. toward the middle of the run.

Not saying it is the safest/nicest way to go, just the easiest for the moving skier (who doesn't want to slow down) to evaluate.

Sadly I have seen collisions when a moving skier who didn't want to slow down passed closely to a stopped skier who moved a ski length at the wrong time resulting in a collision. As I previously posted I have been passed on the left skiing several ski lengths off the edge by a high speed skier who told me when confronted at the bottom he was in control and I was in his line. I will remain as one believing close passes should be avoided.

 

[Seldomski]

@falcon_o I am 100% with you. Just trying to give you the other perspective/mindset. Personally I will slow down considerably, but not necessarily stop when I see a run choked with tons of people stopped at the top. I think stopping in this situation is not a good idea. I try to stop where there is no one else on the run so others have tons of options to avoid me.

I will also typically ski to the far edge of the trail on one side or other. The middle usually is populated with the worst/most erratic skiers.

 

[Ogg]

I pass on the woods side but usually do a speed check first. I want to be able to do a quick stop or turn to the other side if necessary.

 

[Uncle Louie]

Sadly I have seen collisions when a moving skier who didn't want to slow down passed closely to a stopped skier who moved a ski length at the wrong time resulting in a collision.

Ah, the plot thickens. Code violations (Rules 1 & 2) on the moving skier OR Code violation (Rule 4) on the skier who moved a ski length at the "wrong time" ? Both ?

 

[falcon_o]

Ah, the plot thickens. Code violations (Rules 1 & 2) on the moving skier OR Code violation (Rule 4) on the skier who moved a ski length at the "wrong time" ? Both ?

If moving a ski length from a stopped position results in being hit by an approaching skier I still believe the approaching skier was attempting to pass too close to the stopped skier and skiing at at speed such that they were unable to react to someone below them. I do not find it difficult to give downhill skiers enough space so I can avoid them if they move out of their line. When skiing I will look either way before changing my line so as to watch for overtaking skiers. Also I try to stop on trail edges so as to give moving skiers a clear path to pass me. But, no one is perfect and S does happen. Just trying to minimize it.

 

[François Pugh]

For skiers, I usually pass on the tail side. I never ski right at the edge of the trail; I want to leave a safety margin for that unseen skier passing me (it could happen).
My system, of no possible interception path by skier ahead, works pretty well for stopped skiers too; they can't generate as much speed before I pass them, so require less room.

 

[Andy Mink]

Mammoth has signs encouraging a 15' buffer. Now, that may be for MOVING skiers/boarders as opposed to stationary, but I try and give at least that much even if it means slowing or even stopping to make it happen. I certainly don't want someone within a ski length of me if I'm moving or standing still. I assume others feel the same and try and offer them the courtesy of not coming too close. Until I can read their mind I try and err on the side of being overly cautious. Who knows which way they'll move (or not move). There are no turn signals in skiing and even if there were most people wouldn't use them!

 

[Carolinacub]

Mammoth has signs encouraging a 15' buffer.

I think this is the first time on this thread that I have heard about one of the ski areas actually putting out a distance guideline. It makes sense and while we all know not everyone will adhere to it at least some will.

 

[Coach13]

If my local resorts had a required 15’ buffer we’d have to just stand at the top of the hill and wait a long time. Between the skiers standing all over and the boarders sitting everywhere else on the slope I’m not sure there are too many 15’ areas left, especially on a weekend.

 

[SSSdave]

Mammoth has signs encouraging a 15' buffer. Now, that may be for MOVING skiers/boarders as opposed to stationary, but I try and give at least that much even if it means slowing or even stopping to make it happen. I certainly don't want someone within a ski length of me if I'm moving or standing still...

As I noted on page 2 post #22, I sometimes pass close to others, and by that, I mean easily within a ski length and may only do so if people below have been looking up slope at me that is usually obvious at a glance. I certainly would not do so if I thought it might startle or scare anyone. And that has never resulted to my knowledge in people complaining say by yelling out. And as noted that is because I prefer making short dynamic turns looking very much in control, and don't ski fast, so those looking up at me don't have reasons for concern if I pass say 3 feet away. As someone skiing several decades, note I have never run into another person and in like matter have never caused a vehicle accident despite decades of urban and winter mountain driving.

 

[Goose]

A lot of this comes down to 2 things imo. Common courtesy and common sense. Unfortunately the former seems to barely exist anymore (at least over here in the northeast) where Its an all about me mindset and the new common courtesy is the middle finger. The later is something pertaining to on mountain ski etiquette and even if one (newer to the recreation) is ignorant to a lot of it you would think basic common sense would still kick in a little. But perhaps much of it doesn't because of the lack of the first one. They just don't care and its all about me.

The only forgivable people imo are those moving about who simply don't posses much ability and are not anywhere they have no business being , are trying to be careful but just lost control.

As for skiing on crowded runs and ones which do contain a lot of people who stop in bad places, who perhaps shouldn't be there, or simply just have no common sense or courtesy? Truth is that anyone with greater abilities and experience still has to adjust their skiing accordingly. Just because we may be in the right and the others may be in the wrong....you are still in the wrong if you insist on skiing how you want instead of adjusting your skiing to the atmosphere. Your still in control of your decisions and even if others are wrong its still your responsibility to curb what you want to do into what the scenario allows for you to do. When there is a collision it doesn't matter who was wrong when both parties get hurt. That part is then irrelevant .

I recall one time crossing a street and the vehicle who had a red light didn't appear to be fully stopping. And so we stopped crossing but one person from behind yells ..we have the right away" and proceeds to continue to cross. I said to him..."having the right of way isn't going to mean a thing when your carried away in an ambulance".

I thought about this a lot today out on the slopes on this busy holiday weekend. The amount of advanced skiers not wanting to adjust to the scenario are imo just as wrong as those who dont practice good on mountain etiquette and are even more wrong than those who have an honest ignorance to them.

If you drive a car on the free spirited side and you drive your car in heavy traffic you adjust accordingly. And skiing needs to be the same way.

I'm sorry but you simply cannot proceed as desired just because others or doing things poorly, wrong or incorrectly. Others being wrong doesnt make you right. In fact.....imo being more experienced and of better ability and simply knowing better, it is all the more reason you need to display more responsibility. Even if it comes at the expense of skiing how you truly wish to ski. It's just the nature of the ugly beast when skiing is crowded.

Others will be in the wrong for where they stop and how they go about things. Especially when on crowded weekend or holiday slopes. But you can be every bit as wrong and even more irresponsible when you dont curb or adjust accordingly in spite of it. Reason being because your still responsible for your own choices. And when you know the problems that plague a crowded day but still dont adjust because your fed up or feel your in the right...that's even more wrong.

It outright sucks sometimes I know. I'm with you 100%. But it is what it is. And we have to adjust even if its less fun.

 

[Johnny V.]

A lot of this comes down to 2 things imo. Common courtesy and common sense. Unfortunately the former seems to barely exist anymore (at least over here in the northeast) where Its an all about me mindset and the new common courtesy is the middle finger. The later is something pertaining to on mountain ski etiquette and even if one (newer to the recreation) is ignorant to a lot of it you would think basic common sense would still kick in a little. But perhaps much of it doesn't because of the lack of the first one. They just don't care and its all about me.

The only forgivable people imo are those moving about who simply don't posses much ability and are not anywhere they have no business being , are trying to be careful but just lost control.

As for skiing on crowded runs and ones which do contain a lot of people who stop in bad places, who perhaps shouldn't be there, or simply just have no common sense or courtesy? Truth is that anyone with greater abilities and experience still has to adjust their skiing accordingly. Just because we may be in the right and the others may be in the wrong....you are still in the wrong if you insist on skiing how you want instead of adjusting your skiing to the atmosphere. Your still in control of your decisions and even if others are wrong its still your responsibility to curb what you want to do into what the scenario allows for you to do. When there is a collision it doesn't matter who was wrong when both parties get hurt. That part is then irrelevant .

I recall one time crossing a street and the vehicle who had a red light didn't appear to be fully stopping. And so we stopped crossing but one person from behind yells ..we have the right away" and proceeds to continue to cross. I said to him..."having the right of way isn't going to mean a thing when your carried away in an ambulance".

I thought about this a lot today out on the slopes on this busy holiday weekend. The amount of advanced skiers not wanting to adjust to the scenario are imo just as wrong as those who dont practice good on mountain etiquette and are even more wrong than those who have an honest ignorance to them.

If you drive a car on the free spirited side and you drive your car in heavy traffic you adjust accordingly. And skiing needs to be the same way.

I'm sorry but you simply cannot proceed as desired just because others or doing things poorly, wrong or incorrectly. Others being wrong doesnt make you right. In fact.....imo being more experienced and of better ability and simply knowing better, it is all the more reason you need to display more responsibility. Even if it comes at the expense of skiing how you truly wish to ski. It's just the nature of the ugly beast when skiing is crowded.

Others will be in the wrong for where they stop and how they go about things. Especially when on crowded weekend or holiday slopes. But you can be every bit as wrong and even more irresponsible when you dont curb or adjust accordingly in spite of it. Reason being because your still responsible for your own choices. And when you know the problems that plague a crowded day but still dont adjust because your fed up or feel your in the right...that's even more wrong.

It outright sucks sometimes I know. I'm with you 100%. But it is what it is. And we have to adjust even if its less fun.

IMO, this pretty much sums up the correct approach..................

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Don't ski Saturday and if ski on weekend or holiday it is early and quit when the crowd arrives.

1. 

11am midweek typical crowd at Silver Mt. Idaho.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Wife bitched me out again this week for getting too close to her personal space. She has a very low tolerance level for anyone near her. Spend most of my day hugging the 5 or 6 foot corridor on the side of trail harvesting any powder or playing with the bumps. When I break off my line to safely pass a stopped skier on the wide trail side all too often this skier will move out into my new line requiring another line adjustment. When I hold my line safely passing the standing skier on the narrow tree side never once have I had to readjust for a sudden moving skier. So yes I am that guy safely passing by on the tree side. In my case it is the safest place to ski.

 

[MattSmith]

Sorry y'all. I'm probably "that guy". I ski very fast on blue bombers and other groomed surfaces making my way back to the lifts. I'm usually doing in on 100mm skis. I don't mean to get to close or to startle you. Skiing faster than everyone else eliminates some of the possibility of getting hit. I can't account for the folks dropping into a groomed run from the trees or a snow boarder coming in from the backside. Still gotta be alert for those. I've never run into anyone or been run into, on the slopes. Getting to and from the slopes in a car is a different story.

Please don't impale me with your ski pole. Yelling at me will do no good. I'm usually skiing with headphones in. If you do manage to get my attention I'd be happy to have a coffee or beer with you and talk it out. Try not to get all aggressive on people. Skiing and riding place you in a dangerous situation regardless. Minimizing risk is important, but you can't fix stupid. (as the saying goes)

 

[Sibhusky]

Wife bitched me out again this week for getting too close to her personal space. She has a very low tolerance level for anyone near her. Spend most of my day hugging the 5 or 6 foot corridor on the side of trail harvesting any powder or playing with the bumps. When I break off my line to safely pass a stopped skier on the wide trail side all too often this skier will move out into my new line requiring another line adjustment. When I hold my line safely passing the standing skier on the narrow tree side never once have I had to readjust for a sudden moving skier. So yes I am that guy safely passing by on the tree side. In my case it is the safest place to ski.

I frequently stop off to the side FACING THE SIDE of the trail. So when I start moving (and I always look up hill) it'll be either 1) towards the edge with a fast turn towards the middle of the trail, another look uphill, then go, or 2) a slight reverse to get more space if needed, then the same. So just stay well away from me! Because if I am looking uphill and you're heading at me, I'm going to be moving closer to the edge of the trail, even if that means I'm pushing backwards.

The point is, just because the skis are facing one way, don't assume they are going that way!

 

[DoryBreaux]

I once had an examiner say to me "how is it that the biggest dude in this group is the most cautious of other people? You're like a brick wall they'll just crumple when they hit you." He was joking, but I still said "ha, hit me once shame on you, hit me twice..." The group had a good laugh about it, and I went on to explain my fear of other people's obliviousness.
I have never had a near miss while standing stationary on the side of a run. I don't know why. But whilst moving, for some reason, I turn into an idiot magnet.