Heel Slop

[Wendy]

If he uses a new Intuition liner in his current boots, especially if he walks in them, he will have ~10 ski days of uncomfortable forefoot grip and mediocre heel grip. After those ~10 ski days the forefoot will pack out a little bit BUT the heel area will pack out faster and will be just as sloppy as the old liners by ~20 ski days.

IMO this is a much better application for Zipfit, but the cost of new Zipfit liners is like 80% of the cost of new boots.

If he can find pre-owned gently used Zipfits or if he can find cheap newish OEM liners he can keep the old shell plastic on life support - but buying new Intuition or new Zipfit really isn't economically justifiable here.

I have a friend who skis on a tight budget. She is lucky to have pretty “standard” feet. She hunts down newish OEM liners every year or two...she claims she can do this successfully and get a great fit for cheap.

 

[cantunamunch]

I have a friend who skis on a tight budget. She is lucky to have pretty “standard” feet. She hunts down newish OEM liners every year or two...she claims she can do this successfully and get a great fit for cheap.

It's a bodge, but one of the more effective ones within the set of all bodges.

 

[LiquidFeet]

...lookin up bodge....

 

[markojp]

The horse is at the trough. There's really nothing more to be done other than get some L pads, stick'em on, and go skiing.

 

[dbostedo]

...lookin up bodge....

If you can't find it, look up "kludge"...

 

[Carolinacub]

Here is a quick update on how this all worked out.
Basically I did the old duck tape filler system to put a little volume back in the liner. I found some very thin leather at a local western store and cut my own L pads and then attached them to my liners with duct tape and kept fooling around till the fit felt right.
Saturday was the first chance I had to try them out and they felt really good.
But then I said to myself..."self"...are you sure that's what you're feelin or is it just because you haven't had boots on for quite a few months. So what I did then was to take all my improvements off one of my liners and leave the improvements on the other and compare the two for a couple hours on the slopes.
Results: my makeshift volume filler project actually was working pretty well and what heel slop I had was gone in the boot I had "improved" and the one that was "unimproved" was sloppy.
So now I've got my make shift filler back on both boots. It's going to be interesting to see how long this "repair' lasts, it could be a week and who knows it could be the rest of the season.

 

[CalG]

Duct tape always rolls, slides or balls up when I use it to hold "improvements" in my boots. I guess I have active feet.

Once the "improvement" has proven it's self, It gets stuck on with contact cement.

I have a couple of shaped cork "heel hold downs" glued into two pairs of Scarpa AT boots. Been in for over 10 years. Still holding and working fine, even if I don't ski them more than a few times each year.
N.B. The cork heel holds are glued to the inner SHELLS , but gluing to the liner works for many other situations

 

[Carolinacub]

Duct tape always rolls, slides or balls up when I use it to hold "improvements" in my boots. I guess I have active feet.

Not sure if I'll end up having the same issue with the duct tape or not, my gut feeling is that this is a very temp fix. I say that because the sticking power of the tape seemed iffy while I was doing it. I think that I need to go to a better brand of tape. One that comes to mind is the tape I use to fix my waders. I wonder if the Gorilla tape mentioned earlier could be the key.
Any other suggestions for tape?

 

[LiquidFeet]

You can use sticky-back Velcro. Buy it in a wide roll and cut to shape. I use the fuzzy soft half on the outside of my liners. The sticky glue is pretty good and holds it in place almost indefinitely. It will even stick on top of itself, if two layers are needed.

But if you take your liners out every nite this is probably not going to work.

 

[mikel]

I've never used it but I do know someone that used flex seal tape last season. Apparently it is very pliable and conforms well. I would have thought it would be too thick but what ever works.

 

[otto]

You know the expression "a dollar waiting on a dime" By getting into the correct size and shape shell, it takes the liner pack-out conundrum out of the equation. So do not waste time and money on a fix that will leave you disappointed. You will save money in the long run by getting into the correct size and volume shell with a brand new liner that comes inside the boot. And by the way there is no universal fitting rule to insure you arrive in the correct size boot just by measuring the foot. You also have to take into account how you use the boot. Your story is as important as having a proper assessment of your foot and lower leg.

 

[Carolinacub]

You also have to take into account how you use the boot. Your story is as important as having a proper assessment of your foot and lower leg.

So let's examine that part of your reply. So far I have 100 plus days in the boot and as a patroller my day can last from 7-12 or more hours a day, if you do the math I have anywhere from 700 to 1000+ hours on my liners and boots. Now in the time that I've had them the fit has been just fine no heel slop no movement just nice comfortable snug boots. It was just at the end of last season that the fit started to loosen up due to packing of the liners. This is really a no brainer, with that much time on basic stock liners packing out of liners is going to happen. What I'm trying to accomplish is to stretch the envelope on these liners and get just a little more use out of them. I'm not spending a ton of money and the time involved is minimal.
I will say that I've gleaned quite a bit of knowledge about boots and boot fitting that I didn't have years ago when I bought these so when I do go and get new boots I'll go into the process with a much better understanding of where I need to end up at.
Do I have the perfect boots for me? Probably not. As a matter of fact I know they're not, way to much flex and too low on the performance envelope. But as far as fit, well for 100 days and endless hours the fit has been fine.

 

[Henry]

For some people the L pads to hold the heel down press on a nerve on the inside of the heel causing numbness or press on an artery causing cold feet. In this case the inside pad can be above the bone in a 7 position.

A friend mail ordered Intuition liners, baked them, tried them, and didn't like the result (he told me the details, but my attention was on ordering drinks). He was able to stop at the Intuition headquarters in Vancouver. They put him into the correct liners for his feet & his boots, one was even a different size, refunded his purchase, and the new ones are working just right for him. He told me some reason to avoid the wrap liners, but this time my attention was on receiving the drinks. Anyone wanting Intuition liners and traveling near Vancouver, B.C., phone the headquarters for information. Sorry, Carolina, unless you want a great vacation, this won't be easy for you.

 

[otto]

Exactly ! Thank you for reinforcing my point. You need new boots. Your story tells any competent boot fitter that you will need to replace your boots every season! So as long as you are spending the money to do that, you might as well get the best guided tour available in the acquisition of those boots. New liners or spending hours attempting to add "stuff" between the shell and the liner is a trip down the rabbit hole...

You are only focused on the liner. For that kinda mileage your shells need to be replaced as well. That is the cost of having boots that offer consistent fit and performance over a 1000 hours of use! I am not Ralph Nader and it's totally up to you how you want to make it down the mountain, however I would be very nervous knowing that's the level of control you have over your skis while bringing a loaded sled down the trail.

 

[CalG]

After 1000 hours, The mandated "binding check" fails the boot sole or the binding interface geometry on every boot I've had.
That means NEW BOOTS or DON"T WORK. New boots are the only solution.
1000 hours on a set of liners seems like an OK deal.

 

[Carolinacub]

After 1000 hours, The mandated "binding check" fails the boot sole or the binding interface geometry on every boot I've had.
That means NEW BOOTS or DON"T WORK. New boots are the only solution.
1000 hours on a set of liners seems like an OK deal.

Surprisingly the soles of the boots are in excellent shape. I did have a binding check done and they passed with flying colors.

 

[Carolinacub]

This has gotten way off topic.
The original question was if I walk around unbuckled will the movement of my feet in the boots add to the packing out of the liner. What I have gleaned from the answers given is yep but not really much more than the basic wearing of the boot.
Let me say thank you to everyone who has commented here. The level of knowledge on this forum is a wonderful thing and appreciate everything I have learned.

 

[Carolinacub]

Exactly ! Thank you for reinforcing my point. You need new boots. Your story tells any competent boot fitter that you will need to replace your boots every season! So as long as you are spending the money to do that, you might as well get the best guided tour available in the acquisition of those boots. New liners or spending hours attempting to add "stuff" between the shell and the liner is a trip down the rabbit hole...

You are only focused on the liner. For that kinda mileage your shells need to be replaced as well. That is the cost of having boots that offer consistent fit and performance over a 1000 hours of use! I am not Ralph Nader and it's totally up to you how you want to make it down the mountain, however I would be very nervous knowing that's the level of control you have over your skis while bringing a loaded sled down the trail.

To insinuate that I would compromise safety is an insult. You have no idea of the level of my control, you have never seen me ski and you have never seen my boots.

 

[otto]

Carolinacub, you are correct, I have never seen you ski. I however read every word that you have written on this thread and gave my opinion as a subject expert boot fitter, industry veteran, with 45 years experience helping skiers to have the best possible experience on snow. Sorry to break it to you, but to carry a sled with a body in it on ski boots that are not properly fit to your feet, as well as properly dimensioned in relation to the bindings ( your words for the number of hours and the amount of walking that you do ) is an insult to your training and profession and to this business which I happen to be very passionate about. If you truly care about what you do on the hill, I would suggest you check your ego at the ski area parking lot, and consider the reasons that you ski patrol in the first place.

And for what it's worth the majority of skiers on the mountain today, professionals included are in the wrong size or volume shell for their foot size and volume. So, to pick an argument with me about how you feel about your skiing and and your level of control may not be based on the knowledge of what a properly fit ski boot should feel like. Perhaps going into a shop to try on boots smaller and lower volume than your current boots, will help to demonstrate just how much heel slop you have. Or I could be way off base...

 

[CalG]

Curios how these threads go.

The OP asked a simple question. That is, " Does walking around in loosely buckled boots displace the liner foam, and if it did , would re molding (heating) the liners restore the original fit" Read the OP for clarity!

From that, the OP is challenged in his discretion to safely perform the tasks related to his patrol and rescue activities.

Who gives anyone the right to make those projections?
Stick to the topic. It's not about YOU and your gift to humanity!>!