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Heel Slop

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Carolinacub

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So here's an oddball question for you boot gurus out here.
I do ski patrol here in Western North Carolina so my boots are on my feet all day long. Now quite a bit of my time is spent standing around or walking around while working on a rope line. Admittedly I have 100 plus days on my liners and boots and I know that somewhere in the future I'm going to have to address the fact that my stuff is starting to show it's age.
So here's the question. When I'm not actually on my skis and I'm doing other things I loosen my boots for comfort. Therefor when I walk around my feet move around inside the liner. Does that movement displace the material in the liner so that the original heat mold is changed and if so do you think that if I had the liners remolded I would stop some of the slop?

PS I'm a really cheap person so I don't want to spend money right now on new liners.
 

eok

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Heat molded foam liners will always eventually "pack out" to a loose fit. I'm kind of doubtful walking around in your boots - unbuckled as you describe - could make this much worse than normal pack-out.

100+ days is a lot for a heat molded foam liner...

It's possible to re-mold, but it's likely you'll end up with a much looser poor fit. Kind of depends on the liner & (naturally) your foot. I'd expect low volume foam liners to be poor candidates for re-molding.
 

Ken_R

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So here's an oddball question for you boot gurus out here.
I do ski patrol here in Western North Carolina so my boots are on my feet all day long. Now quite a bit of my time is spent standing around or walking around while working on a rope line. Admittedly I have 100 plus days on my liners and boots and I know that somewhere in the future I'm going to have to address the fact that my stuff is starting to show it's age.
So here's the question. When I'm not actually on my skis and I'm doing other things I loosen my boots for comfort. Therefor when I walk around my feet move around inside the liner. Does that movement displace the material in the liner so that the original heat mold is changed and if so do you think that if I had the liners remolded I would stop some of the slop?

PS I'm a really cheap person so I don't want to spend money right now on new liners.

It really depends on the specific liner material. Really high density foam, like the one in some intuition liners, really does not budge once heat molded and wont change much unless they are heated again. Lower density foam on the other hand, can get packed out after a while resulting in a sloppy fit.
 

markojp

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So here's an oddball question for you boot gurus out here.
I do ski patrol here in Western North Carolina so my boots are on my feet all day long. Now quite a bit of my time is spent standing around or walking around while working on a rope line. Admittedly I have 100 plus days on my liners and boots and I know that somewhere in the future I'm going to have to address the fact that my stuff is starting to show it's age.
So here's the question. When I'm not actually on my skis and I'm doing other things I loosen my boots for comfort. Therefor when I walk around my feet move around inside the liner. Does that movement displace the material in the liner so that the original heat mold is changed and if so do you think that if I had the liners remolded I would stop some of the slop?

PS I'm a really cheap person so I don't want to spend money right now on new liners.

Liners have a lifespan. 75-100 days, the latter being generous and assuming you're not a big guy generating big forces. Shells should last 250 ski days. Your liners are probably just beat. This happens to Intuition liners as well. And of course, shell fit is king. It's either right, or it's not.
 

Eric267

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As stated above 100 days is Pretty standard for liner replacement. Get around 100-120 days in a season and new intuition liners every year is just one of those unavoidable $$ expenses. Usually by the time the second set of liners is taxed it's time for new boots.

If you really don't want to kick up the dough you could go for the band-aid approach and go for a cardboard riser to help take up a little space and pack your foot in a little tighter. Your local shop should have them in different sizes. Might buy you a little time before the inevitable.
 

cem

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yup as others have said the liner is shot, having them loose whilst you are walking about stood around probably does a little to impact the foams but at 100 days + they are well past their best... if you are working on the hill surely some local boot fitter can cut you a bit of a deal, i would go zipfit over intuition for this as they will last you fart longer (into a second shell at very least) sure it is money to spend, but the last thing you want is the sloppy fit when you want the performance to get you out of a sticky situation
 

jmeb

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Agree with others liners are just probably tired. I've worn out Intuitions -- hear good things about Zipfits but no personal experience.

If heel slop is your main complaint -- you could try some thin high density foam duct taped to outside of your liners to take up more volume. Depending on where the volume occurs -- c-, j- or butterfly-pads may help. https://bootfittingsupply.com/#!/Boot-Fitting-Supplies/c/2374229/offset=0&sort=normal

But its just lipstick on the pig of tired liners.
 
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Carolinacub

Carolinacub

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Thanks ya'll, basically you reinforced what I already knew but didn't want to acknowledge. The liners that I have are the stock Solomon liners and my expectations of the life cycle are pretty much right where I am right now. I think I'll probably try to finagle one more season out of them but it looks like the end is imminent.
I've been looking at alternative liners online and I'm thinking the intuition wrap may be best for me. I'm lazy and it looks like they fit the bill on ease of use.
 

Ken_R

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Thanks ya'll, basically you reinforced what I already knew but didn't want to acknowledge. The liners that I have are the stock Solomon liners and my expectations of the life cycle are pretty much right where I am right now. I think I'll probably try to finagle one more season out of them but it looks like the end is imminent.
I've been looking at alternative liners online and I'm thinking the intuition wrap may be best for me. I'm lazy and it looks like they fit the bill on ease of use.

What size boot do you have?
 
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Carolinacub

Carolinacub

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What size boot do you have?
My boots are 28.5, I could probably go down a bit in size for control purposes but to be honest there is absolutely nothing I ski on around here that has much challenge to it so I opt for comfort
 

Henry

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Intuition liners come in over a dozen different models including several wraps. https://intuitionliners.com/choosing-a-liner-model/

A buddy went to one of the larger local ski shops for Intuitions. He was sold some for his Nordica Dobermans. Neither he nor the first three clerks knew that the low volume Dobie needed a low volume Intuition. He had several re-heats, nothing worked, his feet suffered. He finally got the one real fitter at that big shop who knew his stuff. It was totally the wrong liner for his feet and his boots. When he finally got the right one, it worked great. (People I used to ski with reported about a 50% success rate with Intuitions. Probably it was more like 50% success rate with the staff at the shop picking the right liner for them.)

I've used Zipfit. Liked them a lot. I don't know if they'd work well for Carolina. Zipfit says, "Zipfit inner boots are well known to outlast 3 or 4 pairs of shells, with reasonable care. Typically they last more than 600 days of skiing, but the record is 1,500 days skiing and still going strong in the 4th pair of shells"
https://www.zipfit.com/faq

Bontex insole shims are probably the cardboard ones mentioned above. They work OK. They're water absorbent, and if not dried regularly they can grow black mold...don't ask how I know. https://www.tognar.com/insole-shims-pair/ That's shimming from the bottom up. Alternately, one can shim from the top down using layers of strips of thick duct tape...Gorilla tape works for me.
 
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Carolinacub

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Alternately, one can shim from the top down using layers of strips of thick duct tape...Gorilla tape works for me.
That's probably the route I'll take for a temporary fix. I still haven't spoken to the local ski shop guy, the guy who fitted me did an OK job, not great but OK. The other guy in the store is much more knowledgeable but unfortunately I learned that after the fact. Best case scenario is I win the lottery and buy some big ol fat daddy boots with all the bells and whistles and my own private fitting sessions.
 

eok

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My new favorite material for "tuning" boot fit is Gorilla 4612502 Waterproof 4" Patch And Seal tape:

https://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-4612502-Waterproof-Patch-1-Pack/dp/B07HSKRYQW

It's 4" wide and 1/32" thick. Much more flexible & formable than duct tapes and seems to have better long term adhesion. Really easy to cut custom shapes with scissors. Has worked well for me.

Warning: in my experience, the adhesive works really really well. For me, it can be much more work removing it than duct tape - depending on the liner exterior finish.
 

otto

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Your boots are too big! So that basically means that putting any money into a new liner would be a waste of money. As well as attempting to "load" up the boot by adding foam padding, bondtex shims, etc... You need a new boot that is the correct size and shape for your foot.

I don't doubt for a minute that your liner is skied out, however it's a moot point if the shell that you are in is too big. If you came into my shop with a shell that is the wrong size, and or wrong shape, I would not sell you a replacement liner.
 

markojp

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Your boots are too big! So that basically means that putting any money into a new liner would be a waste of money. As well as attempting to "load" up the boot by adding foam padding, bondtex shims, etc... You need a new boot that is the correct size and shape for your foot.

I don't doubt for a minute that your liner is skied out, however it's a moot point if the shell that you are in is too big. If you came into my shop with a shell that is the wrong size, and or wrong shape, I would not sell you a replacement liner.

Yup.... me too.
 
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Carolinacub

Carolinacub

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Your boots are too big! So that basically means that putting any money into a new liner would be a waste of money. As well as attempting to "load" up the boot by adding foam padding, bondtex shims, etc... You need a new boot that is the correct size and shape for your foot.

I don't doubt for a minute that your liner is skied out, however it's a moot point if the shell that you are in is too big. If you came into my shop with a shell that is the wrong size, and or wrong shape, I would not sell you a replacement liner.
They could be too big but then maybe not. When we did the shell fitting the fitter actually did a good job of it. He hit all the high points of correct sizing, what makes me say he did an ok job and not a great job was the things he didn't do that he probably should have....IE: am I standing level in the boot, flex levels etc. Having read article upon article about how a correct boot fitting is done the one thing that I think he actually did well was putting me in the right size shell. Of course I read all that stuff after buying the boots, how wish I had read it prior to purchase, at least then I could have asked better questions about what we were doing.
 

Philpug

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They could be too big but then maybe not. When we did the shell fitting the fitter actually did a good job of it. He hit all the high points of correct sizing, what makes me say he did an ok job and not a great job was the things he didn't do that he probably should have....IE: am I standing level in the boot, flex levels etc. Having read article upon article about how a correct boot fitting is done the one thing that I think he actually did well was putting me in the right size shell. Of course I read all that stuff after buying the boots, how wish I had read it prior to purchase, at least then I could have asked better questions about what we were doing.
A boot too big is not jsut that you are in the right length, one is volume specifically in the heel, obviously the issue that you are having. So NO, your fitter did NOT do a good job of it. You are getting many answers here, the correct ones, but you seem to be fighting them with the "Yeah, buts.." So, you seem intent that the liner is the issue and you are waiting form someone to agree with you. If we go long enough, someone who does not have the experience of an @otto or @markojp will. So when that happens, go buy your replacement liner, ski that for a year until that packs out and we will be back here again in another year or two.
 
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Carolinacub

Carolinacub

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A boot too big is not jsut that you are in the right length, one is volume specifically in the heel, obviously the issue that you are having. So NO, your fitter did NOT do a good job of it. You are getting many answers here, the correct ones, but you seem to be fighting them with the "Yeah, buts.." So, you seem intent that the liner is the issue and you are waiting form someone to agree with you. If we go long enough, someone who does not have the experience of an @otto or @markojp will. So when that happens, go buy your replacement liner, ski that for a year until that packs out and we will be back here again in another year or two.
Yeah But.....LOL.. really not trying to argue and believe me when I say that I know that @otto and @markojp and quite a few other people know tons more than I do about boot issues. The heel movement I have is a relatively new phenomena for me which is why I asked the question about whether or not my walking around with loose boots would displace material. What I'm hoping to glean out of these conversations is a quick short term fix that will give me some time prior to my buying new boots.
 

Wendy

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Yeah But.....LOL.. really not trying to argue and believe me when I say that I know that @otto and @markojp and quite a few other people know tons more than I do about boot issues. The heel movement I have is a relatively new phenomena for me which is why I asked the question about whether or not my walking around with loose boots would displace material. What I'm hoping to glean out of these conversations is a quick short term fix that will give me some time prior to my buying new boots.

No one really knows if his boot is too big. He acknowledges his liner is packed out. If he doesn’t want to spend the money on new boots just yet, I don’t see the issue with a temp fix especially since he spends a lot of time walking in his boots as part of being on patrol.

I have an insanely narrow heel. Even with the correct shell, I need at the very least a heat molded liner. If I could not afford a custom liner, and new boots every few years, I would not be able to ski. Economics would force me out of the sport.
 

cantunamunch

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No one really knows if his boot is too big. He acknowledges his liner is packed out. If he doesn’t want to spend the money on new boots just yet, I don’t see the issue with a temp fix especially since he spends a lot of time walking in his boots as part of being on patrol..

If he uses a new Intuition liner in his current boots, especially if he walks in them, he will have ~10 ski days of uncomfortable forefoot grip and mediocre heel grip. After those ~10 ski days the forefoot will pack out a little bit BUT the heel area will pack out faster and will be just as sloppy as the old liners by ~20 ski days.

IMO this is a much better application for Zipfit, but the cost of new Zipfit liners is like 80% of the cost of new boots.

If he can find pre-owned gently used Zipfits or if he can find cheap newish OEM liners he can keep the old shell plastic on life support - but buying new Intuition or new Zipfit really isn't economically justifiable here.
 
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