Heel lifts?

[Henry]

Heel lifts for the wrong person can result in the lower leg tipped forward, the knees bent more to create balance, and the hips bent, again to balance everything. A few benefit from heel lifts. Many more heel lifts are sold than this.

For more shaft angle, see if the cuff alignment adjusters are on both sides of the cuff, and if they can both be moved the same amount to tilt the cuff forward. As always, get the cuff alignment on the lower leg correct first, then see if the shaft angle can be changed. Here's how one semi-custom boot maker tests skiers for forward lean:
I like more delta...heel higher than toe. I put 1/8" plexiglass shims (& longer screws) under some of my heel bindings.

 

[Mike Thomas]

So, thoughts are......
moving to a DIN sole to lower the toe ?

Grip Walk soles do not change ramp angle, the 'thicker/ rockered' part of the boot isn't touching the AFD. Changing to Alpine DIN sole won't change anything once the binding toe height is set correctly.

 

[Noodler]

Heel lifts for the wrong person can result in the lower leg tipped forward, the knees bent more to create balance, and the hips bent, again to balance everything. A few benefit from heel lifts. Many more heel lifts are sold than this.

For more shaft angle, see if the cuff alignment adjusters are on both sides of the cuff, and if they can both be moved the same amount to tilt the cuff forward. As always, get the cuff alignment on the lower leg correct first, then see if the shaft angle can be changed. Here's how one semi-custom boot maker tests skiers for forward lean:
I like more delta...heel higher than toe. I put 1/8" plexiglass shims (& longer screws) under some of my heel bindings.

Heel lifts do not tip the leg forward. They put the foot at a steeper angle inside of the boot (and will open the angle for the ankle). The leg position is controlled by the forward lean of the boot and the delta of the binding (and possibly sole plating with a differential between the heel and toe heights).

BTW - I do not recommend that video from Dodge boots. It makes some serious misstatements and glosses over critical areas.

 

[Andy Mink]

Resurrecting this thread as my wife just switched boots. Last 3-4 pairs have been tecnica and a recent move to the ladies Rossi alltrack 110. Loves the fit and performance but now noticing the cuff is slightly more upright and feels slightly back on steeper terrain. Mind you this is the princess and the pea I’m talking about, she skis at a demo team level and even the slightest change and even a hair off center and she feels less than perfect.
So, thoughts are......
moving to a DIN sole to lower the toe ?
Going back to the tecnicas and putting in a intuition liner to take up volume ?
Installing a heel lift or adding a spoiler

Other thoughts ?

Give it a few days and ask @Philpug when they get to BS. Don't ask @Tricia; she'll just say "suck it up". That's what she tells me!

 

[oldschoolskier]

Resurrecting this thread as my wife just switched boots. Last 3-4 pairs have been tecnica and a recent move to the ladies Rossi alltrack 110. Loves the fit and performance but now noticing the cuff is slightly more upright and feels slightly back on steeper terrain. Mind you this is the princess and the pea I’m talking about, she skis at a demo team level and even the slightest change and even a hair off center and she feels less than perfect.
So, thoughts are......
moving to a DIN sole to lower the toe ?
Going back to the tecnicas and putting in a intuition liner to take up volume ?
Installing a heel lift or adding a spoiler

Other thoughts ?

If shes at that level she should be able to ski a few drills to adapt balance and equipment equipment changes, if not it is next on her list to learn. Think of it as expanding the comfort zone. Who knows it might even help her get better.

 

[BS Slarver]

If you look at her skiing you wouldn’t even be able to see what she’s complaining about, her skiing is as solid as it gets. I threw out those questions to see what she might want to fidget with.
What drills do you have for micro fore and aft adjustments on dbl black bumped up tree runs

 

[Tom K.]

Resurrecting this thread as my wife just switched boots......... now noticing the cuff is slightly more upright and feels slightly back on steeper terrain.

Installing a heel lift or adding a spoiler

Yes. Just yes on adding a spoiler.

It's quick, it's easy, it's free.

It can even be done between runs or mid-run, esp if her skiing partner want to help out!

 

[ted]

Heel lifts do not tip the leg forward. They put the foot at a steeper angle inside of the boot (and will open the angle for the ankle). The leg position is controlled by the forward lean of the boot and the delta of the binding (and possibly sole plating with a differential between the heel and toe heights).

BTW - I do not recommend that video from Dodge boots. It makes some serious misstatements and glosses over critical areas.

But if the skier does not need the heel lifts, they will be overflexing to feel ball of foot pressure and end up more forward.

Heel lifts should only be used for lack of appropriate ankle dorsiflexion.

 

[Noodler]

But if the skier does not need the heel lifts, they will be overflexing to feel ball of foot pressure and end up more forward.

Heel lifts should only be used for lack of appropriate ankle dorsiflexion.

Correct. Not sure why you read something out of my post that isn't there. Note that correct skiing does not use plantar flexing in order to pressure the front of the ski. You can barely pressure the ski forebody by pressing down on your toes as you just don't have the necessary leverage to get the job done. Proper forward pressure is applied via the front of the boot cuff through closing the ankle joint by using a combination of dorsiflexion (pulling the toes up) and foot pullback (hamstring contraction).

 

[Scrundy]

But if the skier does not need the heel lifts, they will be overflexing to feel ball of foot pressure and end up more forward.

Heel lifts should only be used for lack of appropriate ankle dorsiflexion.

That was my thinking also and comes from experience with my setup. Would like to hear more thoughts on this.
I guess if you are happy with your fore aft, doing a heel lift would trow that off. To my thinking you would have to lift toe also ? Then what you do to one boot would you have to do to other ?

 

[James]

There was a time when bootfitters largely subscribed to the ‘take two heel lifts in the morning, leave them in for the afternoon’ theory, esp for women.
That was when Jeannie Thoren was a well known name.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

I like a small heel wedge(same as a heel lift??) in most of my boots to help accommodate my sloppy/skinny heels. Something I've ran into is some boot fitters prefer to put the wedge on top of the boot board between the liner. I prefer it bellow my boot board. When it's on top of the boot board I feel like my arch is being "over stretched".

Is this just one of those areas of personal preference?

-Chris

 

[cantunamunch]

There was a time when bootfitters largely subscribed to the ‘take two heel lifts in the morning, leave them in for the afternoon’ theory, esp for women.
That was when Jeannie Thoren was a well known name.

I'll just point out that that was also before sneakers-at-the-workplace was an accepted thing. #inchandahalfheelsforMEN

I like a small heel wedge(same as a heel lift??) in most of my boots to help accommodate my sloppy/skinny heels. Something I've ran into is some boot fitters prefer to put the wedge on top of the boot board between the liner. I prefer it bellow my boot board. When it's on top of the boot board I feel like my arch is being "over stretched".

Is this just one of those areas of personal preference?

-Chris

Are we talking about the same thing? Boot board = the piece of plastic under the liner, that the liner sits on top of, because no other interior surface of the boot is flat enough?

 

[chris_the_wrench]

Are we talking about the same thing? Boot board = the piece of plastic under the liner, that the liner sits on top of, because no other interior surface of the boot is flat enough?

yeah the boot board under the liner. I like my heel wedge/lifts attached to the bottom of my boot board. Theres usually a heel spot abit smaller than a half dollar where i stick the foam or rubber lift/wedge. Am I crazy??

-Chris

 

[Noodler]

yeah the boot board under the liner. I like my heel wedge/lifts attached to the bottom of my boot board. Theres usually a heel spot abit smaller than a half dollar where i stick the foam or rubber lift/wedge. Am I crazy??

-Chris

You're not crazy if this is actually putting your foot into the best place to match the contours of your boot. This is easily checked by putting your bare foot in the shell, with and without the bootboard.

 

[Tom K.]

yeah the boot board under the liner. I like my heel wedge/lifts attached to the bottom of my boot board. Theres usually a heel spot abit smaller than a half dollar where i stick the foam or rubber lift/wedge. Am I crazy??

-Chris

No you're not crazy. IMO, anybody that skis as much as you knows precisely the fit and feel that works for them.

The fact that you've tried at least one different approach, and come back home to what works best doubles down on this.

I skied this morning with my wife. For kicks, I removed the 2 mm thick spoiler I've settled on from between the shell and liner. It just felt dead wrong. I gave it two hours, and replaced the spoiler, and everything felt great again.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

You're not crazy

No you're not crazy.

Nice! Thanks for the confirmation.

I skied a couple hours today and felt like crap out there. I couldn't drive my right ski tip to save my life. Figured I was tired so I called it a quick day and headed for home. Back at the car I noticed the pivot bolt was no longer in my right boot. I flexed the boot it in the parking lot and watched my leg/knee/foot doing all kinds of weird alignment stuff. That was a relief to know it wasn't 'me'.

I skied this morning with my wife. For kicks, I removed the 2 mm thick spoiler I've settled on from between the shell and liner. It just felt dead wrong. I gave it two hours, and replaced the spoiler, and everything felt great again.

I did that experiment last year, I couldn't believe the difference. It was so awkward. I wonder if I would of thought it was so strange if I hadn't known the spoiler was removed. Like a blind test....

-Chris

 

[James]

Been trying to get kids to really clean their boot soles off. The amount of snow/ice that can be on a sole and still click in is surprising. Then you’ve got random canting.