Have you seen what lessons will cost this year?

[KingGrump]

Someone in my group once asked my instructor at Taos how to go about getting a powder lesson. His reply was basically "You have to get lucky or have flexibility with the snow... but if we get snow, every lesson at every level will be a powder lesson."

Sort of like how when they haven't had snow, every lesson at Taos is a bump lesson.

Had couple friends bi*ched complained to me about the ski week they had at Taos. They complained that their fundamentals didn't improved much during the ski week since it snowed almost everyday. They was moaning how were they supposed to learn and improve their fundamentals when all they do is ski powder.

I told them to shut up, be grateful and consider themselves lucky.

 

[dbostedo]

Had couple friends bi*ched complained to me about the ski week they had at Taos. They complained that their fundamentals didn't improved much during the ski week since it snowed almost everyday. They was moaning how were they supposed to learn and improve their fundamentals when all they do is ski powder.

I told them to shut up, be grateful and consider themselves lucky.

And you STAYED friend's with these people?

 

[KevinF]

Regarding powder lessons or bump lessons or whatever terrain specific goal you want to work on…

The better I’ve gotten at skiing, the more I’m convinced that it’s all “just snow”. Certain conditions force you to do things that you should, or at least can, be doing anyway. ie, moguls demand absorption/ retraction, but you can do that on groomers.

A great instructor should be able to improve your skiing regardless of what the conditions are like. And if your skiing has improved, you should improve regardless of the conditions.

I’ve been taking regular lessons with @Erik Timmerman for several years. We’ve worked a lot on balance, outside ski pressure, “boring” stuff. My off piste skiing is vastly better.

Skiing is skiing.

 

[KingGrump]

And you STAYED friend's with these people?

They have been down rated to "acquaintance."

 

[Tom K.]

@Slim, chill out about Big Sky lesson prices.

Remember, Montana has no state sales tax, so it's not that bad.

 

[Mike King]

An improvement of my skiing technique.
There are situations in skiing where my skills are hindering my enjoyment, or even creating risk. (Very steep icy terrain or moderately steep terrain with bad snow).
There are other times when it merely reduces the amount of fun I’m having (sking our local low angle, grooomers)
Or where I‘m burning to much energy (moguso, crud).

And yes, I realize that it’s hard to improve in one day, but every little bit helps.

I am not a very proficient skier, but I do feel I have mastered pizza and french fries, which is the level of lessons I see here at home.

So, plenty of low hanging fruit for me to improve. Pretty much any aspect or technique of skiing I can improve a lot.

So in a days lesson, I’d want the instructor to pick a subject where they think I can improve the most, a have me work on those. Hopefully, the feedback, drills and questions I get from them, I can continue to work on on my own.

Why?

Rather that pursue the rabbit hole some have turned this thread into, I thought it might be best to try to help you out. Are you primarily skiing groomers or are you skiing off piste as well? When you say you'd like an improvement of your skiing technique, are you looking for groomed skiing technique or your off-piste work? Do you have an idea of your current ability level?

In Big Sky, there are some great ski instructors I know who might help you out. But depending on what nature of ski improvement you might be interested in, I might have other options for you to consider that could possibly be more frequent interaction with less cost...

Mike

 

[Jerez]

Winter Park has one hour privates (before the lifts turn) for $99.


not private, but some of the best progress I have had came from multi week clinics at Ski Santa Fe. Once a week 1/2 day small group lessons for 6 weeks at $270 or specialty (telemark or bumps) for 5 weeks at $225. All with the same students and instru tor. Taos ski weeks are also reasonably priced at $375.

 

[Smear]

That's sort of what I was getting at.

Also that buffing the rate of progress at any price almost pushes competition as the only way to get a proper payoff out of all that money and misery.

Also that intuitive athleticism is like volcanology and witchcraft - people can show you but you still have to teach yourself.

Yep, and how do you develop that "intuitive athleticism"? By doing some varied activity that challenges your athleticism every single day from early childhood until death.

Always searching for the perfect coaching/instruction and having the best possible professionally fitted gear in every activity is just perfecting the buffing. And down-talking each other for not being able to provide that for your kids or yourself is kind of meh...

 

[HDSkiing]

Question for you, @HDSkiing--Do you turn away lessons or have a set staffing level that you are "sold out" for the day or a day? Or do you pack the group lessons with more students and take anyone who wants one?

We use an online booking system which is set to X-number of students in a given type of class NE/Novice/Green/Blue etc. based on available staff for that day. We also will have a set number of private slots per day, not every day is sold out and it can vary depending on time of season etc. but peak times will be. if we have walkups we might add one or two but try to keep the classes in the 4-6 range for quality, but will go to 8 if demand is really high.

 

[Frenchman]

That’s twice the price of a season pass at my home mountain man.

America vs Europe...This being said that's also about twice the price of an Epic Local pass in the US.

 

[Frenchman]

Aspen is a case in point. There are more members of the PSIA demo team in Aspen than at any other resort. In addition, there are a large number of current demo team members from other countries who are on staff. Finally, there's the alumni of demo teams who are present. Not to mention the number of examiners from a wide variety of countries on staff.

I know! When I skied Aspen last year (beautiful mountains, and perfectly timed for the WC races too), I just wanted to ask if I could join a training led by Ballou, Fogg, or Jordan. I didn't have the courage. If that's even a possibility on a later visit (I teach in WA), I want to know!

World class skiers and trainers do have an impact on the staff. I expect many more L3s there than at other places, and well trained and current ones at that. That immediately increases the value of the lesson at that destination resort IMO.

 

[HDSkiing]

I would love to hear your explanation of that. As one example, you can earn $75/hr tutoring math, compared to ~$20/hr teaching skiing. The pay simply does not reward the short hours, equipment cost, non productive hours, or dollars invested to attain proficiency. Do you have many more applications than openings? If not, why is that? As an aspiring qualified instructor, do I need to interview at many resorts to find an opening, or will I land the first one I walk into? (Let's leave Aspen, Yellowstone, et al out of this)

Like every ski school I know we have more openings than applicants. Leaving the I-70 corridor and Aspen out of it, our pay, particularly for a non-cert first year is better than our competitors and better than the prevailing wages in town for service industry jobs. TBH here, I’m not convinced staffing shortages in our industry are solely the function of salary, not that more money wouldn’t help. Teaching skiing is a fun job that is seasonal, and much of our staff are already financially secure and do the job for the love of it. It’s also a job where the really good pay comes after years of training and experience and/or a move into management. Many just aren’t able to make it in those early seasons and move on to something else. While I’m well compensated now, if I didn’t have other sources of income when I was newer I’m not sure what my staying power would have been. So you raise a fair point to be sure.

Not said often enough. Why isn't the industry saying this?

Those of us who have the benefit of skiing/training with a mentor several hours a week understand the value of “progressive coaching,” you drill and drill, get feed back and it might not show right away, but suddenly things just click days on snow later or maybe weeks. There also has to be sufficient time on snow between sessions working the drill. Most recreational skiers just don’t have the time, or just wanna go slide and have fun (nothing wrong there) but those who work weekly with a coach know well the benefits. I’m a big fan of our multi week programs which are the best deal on the mountain.

 

[Frenchman]

You want an instructor's instructor.

I disagree. It's totally dependent on both the mountain and the instructors. We have instructors that teach instructors that are way less qualified than other instructors who don't do so.

 

[crosscountry]

It’s also a job where the really good pay comes after years of training and experience and/or a move into management

For some people who do it for the fun of it, moving into management would mean the end of the fun part.

So if the livable wage only comes at the price of losing the fun, it's not surprising many don't want to continue.

 

[sketchyAnalogies]

AZ Snowbowl has fantastic lessons.
$29 afternoon midweek lessons
And peak lessons are about $60?
Free 2 hour first time beginner lessons every day.

With intermediate/advanced lessons, especially midweek when crowds are light, you can end up with a private or semi-private for the cost of a group lesson. Yeah it's not Mammoth or one of the popular resorts, but I think it's one of the best places to learn price wise.

 

[stevo]

We are experiencing inflation. My dining out costs have gone up substantially. A couple years ago I was able to get an altabird season pass for $1400, today it's like $2600 or some crazy thing, I am just going Alta-only in fact because of it, which is about the same as the alta-bird was just a couple years ago. I was just in asia for a couple months and costs have gone up a lot there too, kind of shocking. Its a global phenomenon, but especially true right now in USA.

Powder mountain, which used to be dirt cheap place, is raising their day ticket price to $200 now. Hard for me to see that working..but hey...its happening...

So... get used to it..that is the new normal...skiing is going to be expensive.. Many great suggestions here to avoid the big resorts and go to places where it can be had for less.

I do think that at $1200/day people will second guess private lessons or not. Quite often the qaulity is not there enough to justify that kind of a price unless you're maybe getting 5 friends together to save a few bucks over a group lesson. I sure hope the pay rate for instructors has gone up to match it...but somehow I think probably not...

I can say many wealthy guests don't care that much about the quality of the lessons or the price, they just want VIP service and will continue to pay for it.. And there are plenty of those people showing up to ski.

 

[HDSkiing]

For some people who do it for the fun of it, moving into management would mean the end of the fun part.

So if the livable wage only comes at the price of losing the fun, it's not surprising many don't want to continue.

Fair point depending on where you work. In my case I still get out and teach, I make it a point to ski everyday I’m at work, so north of 120 days a season. plenty of which were fresh powder last season. I hire, train and lead clinics for new and returning staff, which is one of the best perks. I attend at least 5-6 PSIA clinic days every season and take every opportunity to at least make a dent in all the bad habits growing up in race courses in the 70’s ingrained in me. Sure, there’s HR issues, payroll, management meetings, budgets and guest services to deal with, but all in all I’m still having a lot of fun while being well compensated. I mean come on man, they’re paying me to ski!

 

[Jwrags]

Fair point depending on where you work. In my case I still get out and teach, I make it a point to ski everyday I’m at work, so north of 120 days a season. plenty of which were fresh powder last season. I hire, train and lead clinics for new and returning staff, which is one of the best perks. I attend at least 5-6 PSIA clinic days every season and take every opportunity to at least make a dent in all the bad habits growing up in race courses in the 70’s ingrained in me. Sure, there’s HR issues, payroll, management meetings, budgets and guest services to deal with, but all in all I’m still having a lot of fun while being well compensated. I mean come on man, they’re paying me to ski!

@HDSkiing I am certain it is on the site somewhere but where do you work and teach? I am always looking for a good instructor when I travel.

 

[JohnnyGVT]

I will be going to West Yellowstone for the week of Thanksgiving. Hope to hit Big Sky for 1 or 2 days.

I thought this would be a great time to take a lesson.

I knew that lessons in the US are super expensive (and not because the instructors are earning so much).

But I didn’t count on it being this amount of crazy:

$1222 !!

oh, and that’s with a $200 discount for booking online

And that's what happens when there's a business monopoly! I've been a part-time ski instructor for 15 years...while overall private lesson rates more than doubled, the compensation per hour to instructors went up maybe 20-25%...but who knows the real figure when you take into account the time, each day, that you're forced to be "on the hill, ready to go"...and not getting paid for that time. It's partially the reason why Vail lawyers had to defend a class action lawsuit several years ago...because ski instructors, ski patrol and others sued, alleging they were having to spend so much of their own time ON THE MOUNTAIN HANGING AROUND, and were not getting paid for their time.

 

[JohnnyGVT]

I’m planning a trip to Aspen/Snowmass in March and looked into a private lesson. It was around 1200 for a full day plus tip. If I had a group to split that with and an instructor in mind I might think about it but I’m sure the other guys I’m skiing with won’t be interested at that price. I may end up doing a group lesson but would prefer to get set up with an instructor that came recommended from someone.

hey mike, just saw this, maybe too late. I've been an instructor for 15 seasons and skied my whole life. I skied in Utah for several days, a few years ago, with some friends, including a guy who turned out to be an Aspen instructor. He was one of the best skiers I've ever skied with, plus super nice guy, who was giving free tips to everyone who wanted one. I'd book with him in a second if I were at Aspen...his name is Justin Picken