Foot distance while skiing?....

[Noodler]

Repeating myself....
The point is not that we rec skiers should use a wide stance - the benefits of a narrow stance for most of our skiing is one thing we all seem to agree on. The point is that the moves alpine racers make often are quite irrelevant to rec skiers despite the ambit claims of some ski teaching systems.

I think you're completely wrong. Skiing is skiing, you just need to understand the context in which the skiing movements are being made. Knowing the "why" will help you assess the utility of what you're seeing. Most of what you see in a typical SL race is completely applicable to all recreational skiing. These movements should be the basis for all good skiing. Not sure why in the world you would think that their moves are "quite irrelevant".

 

[4ster]

Watching the Men’s WC Slalom from Chamonix right now & even though there are individual differences, I don’t see anyone skiing in what I would describe as a “wide stance”.
Just sayin’…

 

[markojp]

Still don't understand the 'PSIA stance width', or 'after I quit PSIA, I changed, a s now I ski better'...

PSIA has never, in my experince, proscribed stance width. Sure, you may get sometimes odd and contradictory information from individual ski area trainers, but that doesn't have much of anything to do with PSIA.

To repeat, I may ask someone to change their stance width, but I'm crystal clear as to 'why', and I can't ever say it's been asked looking for a permanent change.

Stance width is a tactical choice IMHO. Strong skiers know this and adjust accordingly. The whole disgruntled with PSIA as an entire national organization seems like misplaced blame. I generally have a narrow stance. It hasn't held me back a bit in exams, tryouts, etc.... I don't know that anyone's ever mentioned it other than if there's a drill that stance width change is part of the equation.

 

[geepers]

Watching the Men’s WC Slalom from Chamonix right now & even though there are individual differences, I don’t see anyone skiing in what I would describe as a “wide stance”.
Just sayin’…
View attachment 224002

Was watching that too. There's a fair amount of variation between athletes. Some are slightly wider than others, some vary width to a degree from transition to transition whilst others have amazing consistency.

But point wasn't about stance width. Was about how relevant all the moves in ski racing were to rec skiing - some are, some aren't. And who arbitrates which is which.

 

[markojp]

But point wasn't about stance width. Was about how relevant all the moves in ski racing were to rec skiing - some are, some aren't. And who arbitrates which is which.

One poster so far as I can tell.

 

[dbostedo]

One poster so far as I can tell.

Well I would think instructors and instructor organizations would (and do). We've actually talked a little about pro racers and how what we're doing relates this week at Taos. We didn't talk about stance width though.

 

[justplanesteve]

what, no gorilla turn fans?
(drill)

 

[Ivan]

Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised no one referenced this post by @razie: http://www.effectiveskiing.com/Topic/Vertical_separation

Here is Daniel Yule during his slalom run in Chamonix on Sunday. A lot of vertical separation, but no horizontal separation (his right knee is almost touching his left boot). My understanding is that this is the standard in modern technical skiing (also see the pic of Noel above). The legs/feet are very close to each other, the distance between skis is determined by the edge angles. The higher the edge angles, the higher the (vertical) separation.

 

[martyg]

Was watching that too. There's a fair amount of variation between athletes. Some are slightly wider than others,

And there is a reason for this.

 

[geepers]

Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised no one referenced this post by @razie: http://www.effectiveskiing.com/Topic/Vertical_separation

Here is Daniel Yule during his slalom run in Chamonix on Sunday. A lot of vertical separation, but no horizontal separation (his right knee is almost touching his left boot). My understanding is that this is the standard in modern technical skiing (also see the pic of Noel above). The legs/feet are very close to each other, the distance between skis is determined by the edge angles. The higher the edge angles, the higher the (vertical) separation.
View attachment 224335

That's why most refs in this thread are to width at transition.

 

[geepers]

And there is a reason for this.

Nicely baited the hook there, Marty. Now just reel us in.... tell us more.

 

[martyg]

Nicely baited the hook there, Marty. Now just reel us in.... tell us more.

Really. As I said previously, it has to do with your own unique structure, injuries, range of motion limitations, etc.

Debating this on-line will get you no where. Looking at WC athletes for clues will get you no where. Those cats have coaches that have forgotten more about skiing than anyone here (including myself) knows.

Invest in yourself. Go seek out a high level coach. Book them. Ray Gilmore and Dave Gregory in NE. Mike Porter at Vail. Kevin Jardine at SkiCO (500 level coach - coached on the WC circuit for 20+ years. And likely many other that I don't know about.

That is where the truth will be.

 

[Ivan]

That's why most refs in this thread are to width at transition.

Here is modern transition. The same answer: narrow. How narrow? I don't have the exact number in inches

 

[Ivan]

I think you're completely wrong. Skiing is skiing, you just need to understand the context in which the skiing movements are being made. Knowing the "why" will help you assess the utility of what you're seeing. Most of what you see in a typical SL race is completely applicable to all recreational skiing. These movements should be the basis for all good skiing. Not sure why in the world you would think that their moves are "quite irrelevant".

To add to your point, here is what one of the best skiers in the world does when he is freeskiing:

Yet again, narrow stance.

 

[James]

Here is Daniel Yule during his slalom run in Chamonix on Sunday. A lot of vertical separation, but no horizontal separation (his right knee is almost touching his left boot).

You can’t go off an image like that. At those angles and forces there’s only so many places for the body parts to go. In order for the outside ski to be on that angle, the knee is likely to hit the inside like somewhere. Depends on the morphology of the femur and hip neck angle too.

To add to your point, here is what one of the best skiers in the world does when he is freeskiing:

Yet again, narrow stance.

It’s somewhat varied, but if this is narrow, wide would be on opposing edges.

 

[Ivan]

You can’t go off an image like that. At those angles and forces there’s only so many places for the body parts to go. In order for the outside ski to be on that angle, the knee is likely to hit the inside like somewhere. Depends on the morphology of the femur and hip neck angle too.

It’s somewhat varied, but if this is narrow, wide would be on opposing edges.

View attachment 224355

He is wide in 1 or 2 transitions out of something like 20. Most of his transitions are very narrow.

 

[geepers]

Here is modern transition. The same answer: narrow. How narrow? I don't have the exact number in inches

Point was not actual width of stance. (FWIW I ski narrow stance except when tucking for a speed run or dodging bracken.)

Point was that we shouldn't simply do what WC skiers do. We should think about whether or not their technique is applicable to rec skiing. The example I gave was Hirscher in a GS race where every single turn had a wide AF stance at transition. Of course the response was to exclude any ski racing except slalom from the available evidence on the basis that GS turns on anything under 21m (or something) were illegal or immoral (or something).

 

[James]

^ wouldn’t call any of those particularly narrow. Maybe upper left but it’s just the angle likely.
He’s at pelvis width.

 

[GB_Ski]

@Ivan can you label which screenshots are narrow by your definition and which are wide?

 

[Noodler]

Point was not actual width of stance. (FWIW I ski narrow stance except when tucking for a speed run or dodging bracken.)

Point was that we shouldn't simply do what WC skiers do. We should think about whether or not their technique is applicable to rec skiing. The example I gave was Hirscher in a GS race where every single turn had a wide AF stance at transition. Of course the response was to exclude any ski racing except slalom from the available evidence on the basis that GS turns on anything under 21m (or something) were illegal or immoral (or something).

Not illegal or immoral, rather it stems from an ongoing inside joke we have among friends about "your beautiful GS turns on your SL skis". The implication being that doing GS turns on SL skis means that you are using very low edge angles (aka not tipping).

This goes back to how most recreational skiers ski. They mostly ski without much offset or deflection of the skis. They prefer to ride on top of them, making long turns on skis with short radius sidecuts.