Define 'de-tune'

[Coach13]

So no one would call what I described in #35 (light gummi work) de-tuning?

I think many would, although not necessarily correctly. I think many folks definition of detuning is pretty much any hand gummi work after the Wintersteiger. I think that begs the question though of where is the line of detuning or not for folks who always hand tune there skis? There is most certainly gummi work there as well.

After this discussion my definition of detuning is a deliberate effort to dull the ski edges. That’s not your intent when I read how you finish a tune. So in my mind what you describe is not detuning.

 

[Eric267]

So no one would call what I described in #35 (light gummi work) de-tuning?

I would call the 4-5 firm passes with the gummy on the tips/tails a standard detune. Just seems to me to be part of the tuning process. Most shops around here would refer to it that way also

I also was in jr high when straight skis started to transition out so don’t remember when detuning meant dulling way past the contact point. Would definitely be pissed if I took my skis to a shop and they rounded off my edges past the contact point just because they thought they should.

 

[Pappa]

I think it's a shop-to-shop thing what the average customer and their gear level is what determines how they work their customers skis. At our shop we get anything from beginner level skis to beer league skis and only rarely anything good (titanal laminated skis are great things to work on). Average ski is something woodcore without anything to stiffen them. I'd imagine workshops in resorts are mainly working same level as our shop and hence results vary based on the workshops staffs own skiing experience and enthusiasm for their work to search more knowledge. This edge dulling thing is something that we don't teach to new employees anymore but is frequently asked by customers and even by local ski team members as "this is what's always been done".

Our customers often ask for "not too sharp edges" so that the techniques they've learned in the 90's can still be used with their carving skis, mostly to keep doing skidding turns. Which again forces us to use gummi stone pretty hard for 1/2 edges so that customers cant even do carving turns naturally and only if they actually push the ski to do it.

Our slopes also are mainly manmade hard snow so my own skis get 0,5/87 and only after finger testing the edge for grooves I use gummy very very lightly which is also done on any customers ski worth doing it. The difference is huge but as I said, it's what customers here want. I'd imagine ski shop with FIS skis in inventory and staff with good knowledge would do different finishing touches as the average customer base is more demanding. 2 out of 100 customers that I've asked for their angles even understand what I ask them >.<

 

[Steve]

So no one would call what I described in #35 (light gummi work) de-tuning?

The one or two light passes with the gummi to me is not detuning.
The 4-5 passes probably isn't, but a definition of "beyond the contact point" could be hashed out. On my SL's is there really anything at the tail that doesn't contact? At the tip?

On rockered skis this seems like a good idea.

 

[Sibhusky]

I wouldn't want you doing the 4-5 passes above the contact point. That's for me to do. That's where I'll use an increased base bevel if needed.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Personally I‘m of the opinion, if you need a detune you need to learn to ski, just say’n!

 

[Scrundy]

Personally I‘m of the opinion, if you need a detune you need to learn to ski, just say’n!

For real dude? Or you just trolling? Or do you just carve all day?
I detune my skis a little below the widest point on tip and tails. I just find it to be safer skiing various conditions. Now if I spend my whole day carving groomers I wouldn’t. I would also keep my sides at 3 but for a all mountain ski a 2 is just better for me.
It may not be for you but you know how to ski right?

 

[Wilhelmson]

t happened to me, I was launched, both skis in air

Like I said the tech had warned me a few hours earlier that the skis were sharp as hell and actually suggested that I detune them which I declined. I was skiing pretty fast through some typical moguls with loose snow on top of harder snow and caught an edge on the harder snow and did a superman flip, landing on my back with my feet on the downhill side.

 

[François Pugh]

I find a sharp 1:2 tune works fine for me in moguls on my Vokll P50s, and a sharp 1:1 worked fine in snow on my Volants. I will admit that a sharp 0.5: 3 on my Fischer SCs will punish me if I don't pay attention, but that's ok, because I consider not paying attention while skiing to be a punishable offence.

 

[Uncle-A]

The last tune I got on my Head Rallys with a crystal glide on a Montana machine and I had a .75 - 3 with no de-tune between the contact points. They did use a gummy to de-burr between the contact points and they did de-tune outside the contact points. They skied just fine, this was the first stone grind on the ski, though they were tuned before but not a stone grind. I have 3 days on the ski since the stone grind and I alternate the left and right ski per day. They could use some wax but other than that no need for a touch up. When does the community recommend the first touch up and with what?

 

[Sibhusky]

When does the community recommend the first touch up and with what?

Maybe start another thread? Don't want to derail this one.

 

[James]

On my SL's is there really anything at the tail that doesn't contact? At the tip?

Yes. Slalom skis are less square tailed than the Soloman S force Bold. Plus they bend up a bit. Good for switch. Maybe Hirscher at 70 deg edge carving an arc can get that tail engaged.

It's as important to get off the edges in sl racing as it is to get on them. Thus Fischer's hole in the tip. You can do the same without the hole too, much better for free skiing.
Plus, they rarely carve full c's like rec skiers.

 

[oldschoolskier]

For real dude? Or you just trolling? Or do you just carve all day?
I detune my skis a little below the widest point on tip and tails. I just find it to be safer skiing various conditions. Now if I spend my whole day carving groomers I wouldn’t. I would also keep my sides at 3 but for a all mountain ski a 2 is just better for me.
It may not be for you but you know how to ski right?

I ski 0.5/4 on both my GS and SL’s, on my old straights GS and SL 0/3.

It really comes down to edge feel which is a learned thing, once you have it doesn’t matter the conditions.

As to skiing, do it all man. I just prefer a responsive ski.

As the saying goes, you can’t ski, ice just proves it.

Notice smiley with wink (didn’t think it was need the last time).

 

[Scruffy]

And you wonder why the shops are all over the map with what they do to people's skis via vi "de-tune"; we can't even agree what the hell it is.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

I couldn't possibly care less what anyone else likes about ski tunes. @Doug Briggs do my Stocklis I dropped however you usually do them..that works for me We need to grab a beer.

 

[Henry]

In olden days with long straight skis and no base bevel the skis needed the tips & tails dulled. Somehow the skis changed but some people's ideas didn't.

The parts of the edges we want dull are the curve of the shovel ahead of the contact point. If skiing in a frozen rut we don't want that sharp edge to catch on the side of the rut and jerk us around.

I like 'em sharp all the way from contact point to contact point. One shop I like tells the customers that the edges are sharpened all the way and gives them a piece of abrasive cloth to dull them as they like.

 

[Marin]

I never de-tune my skis and here is the my thinking about this , very short and simple,
When you about to make a turn , what parts of the ski has contact with snow first , Tip and tail then rest of the ski, So what would you need to de-tune tip and tail .So if my tip and tail is de-tuned how to make sharp turn, of course I do 90% of Curving so for me this is very important.
Simple test at home, Put your ski at edge on carpet and look at button, only tip and tail are in contact till you push ski .

 

[François Pugh]

From Jackson Hogen's February 13, 2020 "Revelation"

Who Needs New Ski Prep? - Realskiers

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realskiers.com

“New ski prep” is ski shop shorthand for a suite of services applied to the base and edges of a new pair of skis. Exactly what this includes may vary from shop to shop, but the basic premise is to deliver a flat ski, edges lightly detuned tip and tail and base waxed and polished...."
and
"Five stages of new ski prep: dull the tip and tail, polish the edge, roll on a soupçon of wax and buff it into the base until it’s smooth as a baby’s bottom. Technician: Harold Henderson at Bobo’s in Reno, NV. "

Is it any wonder why folks have trouble learning how to carve, or have trouble skiing with a responsive well-tuned ski?

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

If it happens, you’re in the air. The one guy I watched, in our group, flew right into the tree branches. People next to me just took off to get patrol. Fortunately, he just cut a couple branches and they slowed him down and he landed in snow.

When it happened to me, I was launched, both skis in air. I’m heading right for the forest, and all I see are trunks. I fully expected to take a 16 inch evergreen trunk to the chest. Luckily, my tails caught the snow piled up before the forest. I then slammed and face planted at the base of the tree. Helmet vents were crammed full of snow. Ski left marks on the trunk.
Aspen Highlands, that ridge heading to the lift by Cloud 9.

launched during what? GS turn at fast speed? Bumps? Slalom turn?

 

[BGreen]

A number of people say 'don't de-tune' my skis when they bring them in for a tune.

What do you consider de-tuning of your skis?

A little late to the party, but I would define "de-tuning" as any practice or technique intended to dull or remove sharpness from the edge beyond removing a hanging burr or small nick. I won't argue whether that is part of finishing an edge, but I will say it is a tool in adjusting the behavior of a ski.