I think expert skiing is often defined by the ability to change the timing, duration, and magnitude of pressure. For example:As opposed to all at the finish makes sense to me.
NOTE: I wasn’t there so could be taking it out of context.
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CSIA - Perry Schmunk is out???
- Thread starter Slasher
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I couldn’t agree more. A good grasp of the fundamentals is the key to versatility.
I will have to look at the videos later but I think I have seen some of them.
PSIC is basically half-ish of the Whistler L4s plus several other BC/AB folks, and a handful out east. Given that there's as many L4s at Whistler as the rest of BC combined, and about as many L4s in BC/AB as the rest of Canada combined, that's pretty significant. And, for better or worse, Vail Resorts has a huge cultural influence over PSIC.
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Nigel has been on the tour. He's met with ACA and CASI. In the last 3 weeks.
I also heard at Pro-camp, the L4 interski members that have gone PSIC could be in for some legal trouble. They sign a contract for Interski. Part is to pass on the information to members. They are not doing that.
I also heard at Pro-camp, the L4 interski members that have gone PSIC could be in for some legal trouble. They sign a contract for Interski. Part is to pass on the information to members. They are not doing that.
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I think they need quit their sparring and learn to get along, but I guess I'm still Canadian at heart, make peace not war. I really believe there is room for two, is that the UnCanadian thing? Monopolies are best and free market is what?. If you have a good product you have no need to worry if the other product is not copying your product and doing something differently. Now I know why Harold Harb went to the USA to teach his methods instead of trying anything in Canada.
Canada suffers from the IBM Groupthink. US is more willing to do new things. Here, if you buy IBM, you will never be fired no matter if it works or not. Down there, they'll take a chance on something else, learn lessons, save money, do things better. There is not the same fear of getting fired or resistance to change that we have. Why take a chance if you're only going to be berated and crapped on? Just fit in and ride the wave..
So wish that your comment about the US (if it pertains to PSIA) were true. There's a lot of very dated groupthink in PSIA; they need a major shakeup to realize that their thoughts about biomechanics and ski performance are not correct. They could also learn something by listening to what other national associations say, particularly the Austrians, Swiss, Japanese, and Italians.
IMHO.
I should add NZ, Aus, Denmark ....
I believe you are incorrect; regular instructors absolutely can belong to both. However, you cannot be a csia course conductor if you're in psic. I agree that csia course conductors shouldn't be permitted to deliver content they learned from the csia under the psic banner.
My guess is the conductor saw all of the pressure at the end of the turn in the candidates (ie grip after the fall line). Instead they're trying to get candidates to develop early balance against the outside ski, which feels like more pressure against the ski at the top of the arc.
Maybe that one course conductor was having difficulty expressing themselves?
Were you around for the part where Perry made a mess of the organization, got booted, then ran off to start his for-profit corporation? This was not innocuous.
There is absolutely not room for two organizations in Canada. It's a small industry, and fracturing instruction is bad for instructors. The only winners are Perry and these senior 4s who stand to make money on courses and member fees, as well as the resorts who can now dictate terms across both organizations.
Regarding "sparring", the csia has been professional throughout the entire mess (caused by Perry). The commentary has all come from we the peanut gallery as well as psic.
Sincere question: how did Perry mess it up? I really would like to know. So far all I've heard is hushed rumours and innuendo ... everyone is too "polite" (as Canadians are wont to be) to dish the real dirt.
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Yes I've been csia for 22 years, or 23 now I guess. It came from the peanut gallery because the peanut gallery hears and sees things but gets little real information of what went on. Did I see things, No, we the peanut gallery got little information on what was going to drive such decisions as are made on our behalf we were merely notified via a monthly letter that someone was stepping down and new name stepping in, that is what it feels like to be just a nameless instructor. I did not even know that this was happening until I received emails from both organizations and came here to check out what was going on. The heads that be think it's best we just conform and know what they want us to know, right? We ski CSIA style, we quote what ever new jibber jabber is spewed this 4 years, we read the new manuals that explain everything with new words and we regurgitate them to the lower masses if we are course conductors. Did I like the changes under Perry? Some were good some I'm not so impressed with but those are still here. Those things that did not impress me have become so far, from what I see. a lasting legacy. I will not speak up in a room to voice my opinion against any authority so that leaves me accepting what is given or leaving. I love to ski, I enjoy teaching, I belong because in Canada I have to, it's like an unwritten law, belong or you do not teach. On a side note, some of those in PSIC taught me great things, I bring them to my students, those that really matter. You can not trust a person to deliver a good course how you would like because they belong to 2 organizations? Worry about your organization, how someone works for you and again, belonging to more than one to teach at should not be of such a concern either, CSIA taught me a little, PSIA taught me quite a bit, Coaching taught me quite a bit and I learned a whole lot in 20 plus years of teaching that I was not comfortable enough to even show in CSIA groups but when I went as a clinician in the US and worked I learned how valuable those years of teaching are and finally am willing to speak up and teach what I know. My last CSIA course conductor course made me feel so uncomfortable in it's format and how they spoke at us I could not bring myself to say anything and didn't complete it. A good teachers asks for input, encourages it's students to participate and learn, and listens to see if they can learn anything from the students. Bell Canada said there is no room for two phone companies, the cable company said this, the list of Canadian monopolies that had no room for two, it was bad for the people and that long list is finally gone, turned out there was quite a bit of room for more than 1. They learned to be better and compete. CSIA can be better and there is a big population out here in Canada, maybe open your mind and make room for two and information and learning can broaden. There is a multitude of new skiers hitting the slopes this year. I'm working at Snow Valley, Barrie. Such a small resort in the cog and such an important step in the wheel. The number of new skiers showing up every day is huge, far more than i recall from my 2015 in Ontario, maybe because it's a small, non intimidating resort where people can feel comfortable coming to learn, and they are churning out new instructors annually, hiring and paying apprentices to go along on these lessons who are learning so much before they are even taking their first courses. My grand daughter at 12 coming out all she can, wishing to be an instructor when she's 14. A resort truly does not need them to belong to CSIA to know if they are good enough to teach or someone that will be a good and diligent worker. But they will go and get certified and pay you to learn one way to teach and trust you to bring all the information they need. Working at Whistler I learned that there is many ways to achieve an end result around the world, we are but one and as interski shows, we can learn from others. Or do we only go to interski to show our prowess and teach the peons how to do it right?
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I'm also in the peanut gallery. That said, from what I remember, the lack of communication started with Perry (I always felt it was quite good when John and Martin Jean were running the organization).
Perry has gone on record to state that in his for-profit company, instructors are like gym members, so that gives you an idea of expected communication.
I'm guessing it'll take time for the CSIA to recover from Perry's effects, but at least there's a new managing director at the helm to right the ship.
My interpretation is more that CSIA teaches course conductors how to run level 1 courses. If the course conductor then turns around and uses their CSIA learnings to teach PSIC courses, then the course conductor has just helped a csia competitor. And that's not good for the CSIA.
Good--do speak up! And your outcomes should speak for themselves.
One thing I took away from course conductor training was the priority to get all instructors to speak the same language, and create a common understanding of CSIA frameworks so that we can have meaningful conversation. But as long as you're working within that framework, using shared language and meaning, and your approach is true to physics and biomechanics, it should be fair to develop your skiers, no?
Look at the trailblazers like JF, Warren, Sandy: they all have different approaches, but their models can all fit within the CSIA framework.
Is that because prior to Perry you were taped into a good grapevine?
'Cause when I joined CSIA in 2017 - time of the 4 Tech Refs - wouldn't have described the comms as 'quite good'. There were some brief manuals with lots of pictures that were handed out at courses and some brief vids that could be discovered (with enough effort) on youtube. Otherwise it was pretty much word of mouth from the course conductors. CSIA HQ was basically out of site, out of mind - a web site for booking courses.
When Perry and Mark Sedgewick took over the manuals became of great deal more detailed and there were town hall meets (available on video) explaining the basic approach to skiing/teaching. Seemed a step in the right direction to me.
Without specifics this is quite meaningless - just more insinuation.
Until there's something tangible going to assume - based on my long experience in corporate - that some new guys came in, did some things that annoyed the old guard's status quo whose staged an immune response. Typical office politics. That's just MHO and more than happy to have that view corrected with more information.
That pretty much sums up the way a lot of us rank and file members feel. I joined PSIC this year, mostly as a show of support for Sandy and Allison, but I welcome the breath of fresh air in the teaching community. CSIA had definitely become the group of old boys, and a little competition will be welcome
Martin and John have definitely moved on. I talked to John when I was in QC, but nothing about either CSIA or PSIC. In fact nothing came up during the 4 days about it. Warren, Betsy, John nor Casey even mentioned it.
Don't forget Perry didn't like the Technical Committee so disbanded it. A new one is in the works. As for the manuals, the blue one is still the best.
Don't forget Perry didn't like the Technical Committee so disbanded it. A new one is in the works. As for the manuals, the blue one is still the best.
Here's the thing ... when y'all are referring to these old-timers by first name only, expecting everyone to know who it is even if the name isn't particularly distinctive (Allison? Martin? John???), I see that as a sign of a cliquey org culture that needs to change. I remain skeptical about what truly sets PSIC apart and about its long-term viability, but I welcome the sorely needed kick-in-the-@$$ that it's giving to the CSIA.
New organization chart, with names and what they do, came out today. This came last week for me!!
Congrats on 40 years with an organisation - that's quite an achievement.
Blue manual? Suspect you don't mean 'The Skills Framework' written by Mark Sedgewick and peer reviewed by a long list of distinguished folk who are now in both CSIA and PSIC. The cover is blue.
No, older than that. It must be up north. I don't see it my office. Brown/Red from 2011 wasn't bad either.
It's not "cliquey" to name people by their names who are long-standing past leaders who've made significant institutional contributions, or recently high profile former directors booted from the organization.
Speaking of old boys club, did you look at the PSIC Leadership Team page? It is literally a group of old boys that Perry had put in charge of CSIA whether running the org or creating his course content. Sorry, but your old boys club moved from CSIA to PSIC.
No, and that's an ill-natured implication.
I'm saying I'm small potatoes because I've never had any role with the alliance other than being a member. But I believe in them because they enabled me to become an instructor and better skier.
We have vastly different perspectives on this. My take is that the manual back in 2016 was OK but quite pared back (not as good as the previous one). In contrast when Perry and Jeff were in charge, there wasn't a single cohesive manual or package but rather five scattered documents with a bunch of the content captured in videos. From my perspective it's a mess.
Significant video content was available for years from the CSIA - though you may have missed that the videos were linked via the website and the CSIA channel. CSIA courses also made use of the videos as well. To your point, speaking with course conductors and actually skiing with course conductors was a big part of being in the CSIA. This is essential as a member of the organization--ski instruction is a social, in-person activity!
But most importantly when you're talking about how great the Zoom call was: You know what we had right up until Perry came in? Professional Development Program days. Literally every single year you got a half-day on-snow training session for free. So if you think a Zoom call is somehow better, I don't know what to tell you.
You missed my point, which is that it will take time to undo the issues Perry injected into the CSIA. Change won't happen overnight.
I'm not up for arguing about whether or not Perry created issues. It doesn't matter to me whether or not you feel Perry was responsible. It also doesn't help anyone to itemize the issues that emerged while Perry was at the helm (although you are welcome to rummage through the previous 11 pages to pull such a list together). But compare what the CSIA, its instructors, and its services to its members looked like 6 years ago versus now, and you'll start to see the warts. I was concerned that people are getting hoodwinked by PSIC - but based on some of the ridiculous responses I've gotten in this thread, I'm starting to not care.
