CSIA - Perry Schmunk is out???

[geepers]

As for the manuals, the blue one is still the best.

Congrats on 40 years with an organisation - that's quite an achievement.

Blue manual? Suspect you don't mean 'The Skills Framework' written by Mark Sedgewick and peer reviewed by a long list of distinguished folk who are now in both CSIA and PSIC. The cover is blue.

 

[geepers]

No, and that's an ill-natured implication.

Actually it's just a straightforward question.

Didn't think it was that unreasonable given the emphatic statement that PS had created problems. I mean "Were you around for the part where Perry made a mess of the organization..." seems a pretty unambiguous statement implying some knowledge of what happened. Whereas every CSIA person I've communicated with (which TBF isn't many) has not a friggn clue what went down. So clearly there's info that's not making it to the outer reaches of the empire.

And it seems we'll remain none the wiser.

I'm saying I'm small potatoes because I've never had any role with the alliance other than being a member. But I believe in them because they enabled me to become an instructor and better skier.

Yeah, have had the opportunity to learn about skiing from ppl who have ended up on both sides on this divide. They are all great skiers, fine communicators and I have really appreciated what they've been able to impart to me. I'd study with any of them again if the opportunity presented itself. My guess is that either organization would be able to help any skier/instructor wannabe who was at my level. But .

My preference would be for everyone to just get along. It's just skiing, not a matter of life and death.

 

[Jilly]

Congrats on 40 years with an organisation - that's quite an achievement.

Blue manual? Suspect you don't mean 'The Skills Framework' written by Mark Sedgewick and peer reviewed by a long list of distinguished folk who are now in both CSIA and PSIC. The cover is blue.

No, it's a CSIA manual. It's a long time ago. Even Rob Butler said it was better. It's up at the cottage. I'll grab a picture next trip in there.
Main colour was blue with a black coil binding.

 

[Deadslow]

No, it's a CSIA manual. It's a long time ago. Even Rob Butler said it was better. It's up at the cottage. I'll grab a picture next trip in there.
Main colour was blue with a black coil binding.

This one?

But not this one?

 

[Jilly]

Top one. I have the lower one here as it's newer. I have every manual since 1980.

 

[Lady_Salina]

This one?

View attachment 227201

But not this one?
View attachment 227202

Ooh i have that one at home. The red one. Never seen the top one! @Jilly you must send me some of the stuff in it!

 

[Jilly]

It was the first manual to come with a CD. That I might have here.

 

[Sherman89]

I think they need quit their sparring and learn to get along, but I guess I'm still Canadian at heart, make peace not war. I really believe there is room for two, is that the UnCanadian thing? Monopolies are best and free market is what?. If you have a good product you have no need to worry if the other product is not copying your product and doing something differently. Now I know why Harold Harb went to the USA to teach his methods instead of trying anything in Canada.

 

[Sherman89]

I have been a CSIA member at Level 3 since 1971 and see absolutely no reason to change membership, why do we have to spend so much time and effort trying to reinvent the wheel and constantly using new words to describe the same words that have been around for years. If the CSIA staff or anyone else needs to substantiate their net worth by being creative with new words to reinvent the wheel. Yes technology has changed the upper end of ski racing and advanced skiing but the basics of skiing is still the same as it was 50 years ago. The CSIA is doing just fine, leave it alone and it will fix itself. We sure don't need another instructor group trying to push the CSIA out. When I see the need s of the beginner/intermediate skier changing then maybe we need to look at how we do business as the CSIA. I think Mr Schmunk and his minions need to take a hike!!!

 

[James]

Now I know why Harold Harb went to the USA to teach his methods instead of trying anything in Canada.

Harb was on the Psia Demo Team. Then he took his ideas and left. Surprised he didn’t go to Canada, but he loved to trash them too.
Early on he basically trashed every teaching system on the planet to differentiate himself and create his acolytes.

He also was thrown out of every ski area he was given some control over the ski school. Including Aspen. Doesn’t play well with others.

 

[skipress]

Harb was on the Psia Demo Team. Then he took his ideas and left. Surprised he didn’t go to Canada, but he loved to trash them too.
Early on he basically trashed every teaching system on the planet to differentiate himself and create his acolytes.

He also was thrown out of every ski area he was given some control over the ski school. Including Aspen. Doesn’t play well with others.

He has a reputation as being a 'cough' character - I had a brief and very wacky email correspondence with him, he disappeared and then re started the correspondence months later as if nothing had happened and was mailing afresh [and as if he'd not read any of my replies].

The business model is very smart; kind of ESF vs Austria ski school circa 1950-1990. Commodify a product that you can sell and create things that differentiate your product from others.

however, in my experience the laws of physics and human physiology are pretty consistent so in the absence of some intervening factor of the I've invented a new type of ski type*, what works... works.

*Even then what we see are gradual shifts, not a reinvention of the wheel

 

[Lady_Salina]

Harb was on the Psia Demo Team. Then he took his ideas and left. Surprised he didn’t go to Canada, but he loved to trash them too.
Early on he basically trashed every teaching system on the planet to differentiate himself and create his acolytes.

He also was thrown out of every ski area he was given some control over the ski school. Including Aspen. Doesn’t play well with others.

But Harold Harb was originally on the Canadian National Ski Team. I was just referring to him doing it his own way and doing it in the USA. We may all be constrained by physics but around the world there are many different ways/steps to achieve the optimum physics and slightly different styles. PMTS and PSIA are both good skiing at the high end but they do have their own look. Anyhow, I stand by what I said, I like a free market and the idea that more there's room for more than one way to do things. Even things as simple as different fee structures could be reason to want to run your own show.

 

[James]

I think it was just easier to rev up a personal marketing machine of anti here at that time. Maybe more people looking. Originally he was also online and basically his posts were an infomercial of non answers.

His original book is a huge percentage of railing against what exists. It’s nearly intolerable because of that. The wedge is the root of all evil, etc.

 

[Mike King]

But Harold Harb was originally on the Canadian National Ski Team. I was just referring to him doing it his own way and doing it in the USA. We may all be constrained by physics but around the world there are many different ways/steps to achieve the optimum physics and slightly different styles. PMTS and PSIA are both good skiing at the high end but they do have their own look. Anyhow, I stand by what I said, I like a free market and the idea that more there's room for more than one way to do things. Even things as simple as different fee structures could be reason to want to run your own show.

Really? HH was on the Canadian National Ski Team? There's no record of any FIS race that he competed in, and there's data in the FIS database that goes back to the 1930s.

 

[Lady_Salina]

Really? HH was on the Canadian National Ski Team? There's no record of any FIS race that he competed in, and there's data in the FIS database that goes back to the 1930s.

Yes according to what he advertises and I thought he was CSIA but guess not. "Harald raced internationally and on the World Cup with the Canadian National Ski Team, and was the Overall Pro Champion on the Eastern Regional Circuit. " https://harbskisystems.com/pages/about-us He is known and mentioned in Canada to the old timer CSIA.

 

[Mark1975]

Really? HH was on the Canadian National Ski Team? There's no record of any FIS race that he competed in, and there's data in the FIS database that goes back to the 1930s.

Apparently this is the 1970 Canadian World Cup Team. Harb is the 3rd one from the left. Personally, I have no idea if this is true. 1970 was a long time ago....

 

[Mike King]

View attachment 231530

Apparently this is the 1970 Canadian World Cup Team. Harb is the 3rd one from the left. Personally, I have no idea if this is true. 1970 was a long time ago....

Thanks. I wonder why there's nothing in the FIS athlete database for him

 

[Peak203f]

He is listed on the Alumni page of Alpine Canada:

Alpine Canada Alumni

Alpine Canada | About | Alumni

For more than 50 years, Alpine Canada athletes have been demonstrating teamwork, pride, perseverance and passion through their commitment to the sport of ski racing. Here are some of the dedicated and talented individuals who have represented their country as members of the Canadian Ski Teams...

alpinecanada.org