Crans-Montana DH

[Lifer]

For your interest:

https://www.fis-ski.com/DB/media/services/timing-and-data/alpine-timing-booklet-v-255-e.pdf

Go to the bottom of page 33 and check out the photocell mounting diagram.

"The cells must be mounted so that both beams are triggered at a height that is lower than the knee of racers at the finish.
It is recommended that the lower most photocell be connected to Timing System A."

 

[Average Joe]

Interesting, there are no online videos of the Crans Montana race when I just did a YouTube search, has anyone seen any photos of this finish? Usually the FIS has a highlight video.
I find it

That an injected World Cup surface melted, in a very short time,to the extent that racers would ski under the beam.
Far more likely they are playing damage control and blaming it on warm weather when in reality, someone is responsible to insure the beams are functional and at the proper height, and that someone probably screwed up.

 

[K2 Rat]

Average Joey (having known you for over 40 years, this is a much more fitting name for you !! )
Here is what I could capture off video. The shots of the guy laying on a slope must in an intermediate time, but he was also

checking something on it during the 12 minute race hold.

 

[K2 Rat]

One other

 

[K2 Rat]

Interesting that they would salt during the delay . Although it was 12 minutes of the sun beating down on the track, I would have thought the rules would not allow salting once the race starts.

 

[Primoz]

Guy on first photo is for sure split time not finish line timing. Salting... I don't know how it's in rules, but I have seen this happen during race plenty of times, so it's not so unusual.
And when you look second photo (Haehlen coming to finish line, you can sort of see how high beams should be to miss her... They should be above Longines logo on finish banner, which is about 1m high. Noone is setting this things so high These things are set by people of Swiss timing, which are going around World cup from one race to another, so it's not group of locals, that saw this for first time in their life.
One plausible option is, that there were problems with connections. It's easy, and some cable can get bad contact/water in contact easily. But if it's really that, why not to say this. Noone would blame them (too much), as I guess it's clear such things can easily happen when you have cables, snow, and humidity all at same place. But then, how that this bad contact would be only at those few Swiss girls and for everyone else it would would work normally? I know few guys working for Swiss timing, and I have heard quite few stories about this, so honestly I'm not really surprised about this, and no I don't think it was problem or error, but plain and stupid play for god knows what reason.

 

[jonc]

Guy on first photo is for sure split time not finish line timing. Salting... I don't know how it's in rules, but I have seen this happen during race plenty of times, so it's not so unusual.
And when you look second photo (Haehlen coming to finish line, you can sort of see how high beams should be to miss her... They should be above Longines logo on finish banner, which is about 1m high. Noone is setting this things so high These things are set by people of Swiss timing, which are going around World cup from one race to another, so it's not group of locals, that saw this for first time in their life.
One plausible option is, that there were problems with connections. It's easy, and some cable can get bad contact/water in contact easily. But if it's really that, why not to say this. Noone would blame them (too much), as I guess it's clear such things can easily happen when you have cables, snow, and humidity all at same place. But then, how that this bad contact would be only at those few Swiss girls and for everyone else it would would work normally? I know few guys working for Swiss timing, and I have heard quite few stories about this, so honestly I'm not really surprised about this, and no I don't think it was problem or error, but plain and stupid play for god knows what reason.

Primoz, I appreciate your perspective as you are much closer to the world cup happenings than I am. But, I would hate to think there was something questionable happening with the timing personnel to provide some sort of advantage to Swiss athletes which I think is what you are implying above.

The electronic systems are not perfect which is why backups and manual hand times exist. Giving an advantage to a particular athlete would have required both electronic and manual system operators to make mistakes.

The miscalculated correction factor should have been reviewed by multiple people before it got this far.

 

[Primoz]

@jonc it's actually much easier to influence measured times then someone might think. And honestly I would hate to think it was influenced, but another thing is, there's perfectly fine explanation for this problems (what I wrote before about cables, connectors, humidity etc.) but as noone is going into that, and everyone are trying to find most impossible explanation, I just assume there's something fishy behind all this. And no, I don't have any direct info regarding this race, so all is just speculation nothing more, at least from my side.

 

[jonc]

@Primoz I would love to hear your thoughts on how to influence measured times, happy to discuss in PM. Certainly if there are manual timekeepers involved there is room for individual influence.

I agree with you completely, it is likely a wiring issue, but the story was not clear from the beginning and left a lot of room for doubt! Without a clear, reasonable explanation people will speculate (and sometimes even with a reasonable explanation). Why did it only happen to Swiss athletes? 4 of their 5 top athletes? Why didn't it affect several athletes in a row? Why did the calculation give those athletes an advantage?

Maybe there will be a push for photo-finish in World Cup events. Certainly the TV crews were doing their best to simulate a photo finish by going back to a freeze frame on the video feed.

 

[Average Joe]

Now that we've seen the photos of the beam height it's obvious that "melting" did not cause the racers to pass below the beam.
A race hosted by the Swiss, with timing problems overseen by a Swiss company, that required using hand times, which must be calculated with a correction factor, which were corrected incorrectly by one group of officials, then re-corrected by another.....
I'm aware of a specific protocol regarding calculating the correction factor when using hand times. I find it difficult to believe that the FIS does not adhere to a similar if not the same methods and rules.

 

[jonc]

Now that we've seen the photos of the beam height it's obvious that "melting" did not cause the racers to pass below the beam.
A race hosted by the Swiss, with timing problems overseen by a Swiss company, that required using hand times, which must be calculated with a correction factor, which were corrected incorrectly by one group of officials, then re-corrected by another.....
I'm aware of a specific protocol regarding calculating the correction factor when using hand times. I find it difficult to believe that the FIS does not adhere to a similar if not the same methods and rules.

As far as I can tell the correct method was followed but a mistake was made (correction factor was subtracted instead of added, or sign was calculated negative vs positive). Having made these calculations before I am not surprised by the mistake. What struck me is how far it persisted, until the review by FIS Timing Working Group.

 

[Muleski]

The "optics", no pun intended, just were not so good. It's a WC event. Not a EC, not a NORAm, not a FIS event, not a seeded USSA, not a U12, not a lollipop race. A World Cup. Just didn't look right, and was not addressed that quickly, IMO.

Of course Also thought it was impossible that Gut-B would have had a second podium, based on the state of her skiing.