Charger vs playful

[altabrig]

Flex is a red herring. The ability for the skier to bend the ski is assumed, if you can't bend the ski it's a sizing issue or a balance issue.

The idea that a ski is a charger for me but finesse for you is likewise hard to comprehend. Because...

Chargers go though the terrain. They are typified as long radius turns, stability, damp feel. They flatten 3d terrain and keep on truckin.

Playful skis go around and over the terrain. Typified as shorter radius turns, getting air time, responsive, and having snow feel. They accentuate and enhance playing with 3d terrain.

Most skis are not purpose built as chargers nor as playful skis either. So I think these terms are a bit overused in ski talk.

For example most people talk about the Mantra as a charger. But its really just a good all around ski, not something made for charging.

The so called playful charger is another thing that I really don't understand.

Great post. I was on Epic. Been delayed a decade with domesticity. Playful charger is a bit contradictory.

Maybe the Optic 114 is a playful charger? Sender squad or more traditional mounted m pro 108 would be charger pure? Probably needs to be twin to be categorized as playful.

Anyone have experience on any of the skis mentioned above to weigh in on chargey and playful longer radii skis. Probably should drift and slarve different turn shapes snow conditions permitting.

 

[GregK]

Old thread being revived!

Agree with @tromano that chargers are usually heavier, stiffer, longer radius skis with great suspensions that even out variable terrain with ease. Usually traditional mount points but a few are more forward the last few years.
Would consider the previous gen 191cm Mantra 102 a charger but not the M6 as it doesn’t have the mass. Legend Pro, Sender Squad and many of the Heritage Labs skis would be other examples.

A playful charger is a ski with all the typical criteria of a charger of higher mass, long turn radius and solid flex but with a more progressive mount points, more tail splay/twin tip and more symmetrical sidecut. More forgiving and fun than a traditional charger but can still haul when desired. Moment Bibby/Wildcat, Faction 21 CT skis and Blackops 118 are all examples of playful chargers.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Flex is a red herring. The ability for the skier to bend the ski is assumed, if you can't bend the ski it's a sizing issue or a balance issue.

The idea that a ski is a charger for me but finesse for you is likewise hard to comprehend. Because...

Chargers go though the terrain. They are typified as long radius turns, stability, damp feel. They flatten 3d terrain and keep on truckin.

Playful skis go around and over the terrain. Typified as shorter radius turns, getting air time, responsive, and having snow feel. They accentuate and enhance playing with 3d terrain.

Most skis are not purpose built as chargers nor as playful skis either. So I think these terms are a bit overused in ski talk.

For example most people talk about the Mantra as a charger. But its really just a good all around ski, not something made for charging.

The so called playful charger is another thing that I really don't understand.

Yeah, thanks, finally an explanation I can understand as playfulness was always an obscene word in my mind when it comes to skiing.
I still don’t want any of it in my life as it goes against everything I stand for as a skier but at least I get it.

 

[KingGrump]

finally an explanation I can understand as playfulness was always an obscene word in my mind when it comes to skiing.

You are young.
To you, most things are still done along the line of "wham, bang, thankyou, ma'am."
As you develop improved technique and tactics. Finesse comes more into play. The Pointer Sisters sing about it in this song.

 

[Tony Storaro]

You are young.
To you, most things are still done along the line of "wham, bang, thankyou, ma'am."
As you develop improved technique and tactics. Finesse comes more into play. The Pointer Sisters sing about it in this song.

Nah, I meant skis. Don’t want any of them “playful’ skis. I can play and finesse ski on WRTs just fine, thank you very much.
Although yeah, at a certain point when I warm up play and dancing is over and it is Hammer-time.

 

[KingGrump]

Nah, I meant skis.

So am I.

Skis are often what you make of it. A FIS SL is playful if you do it right.

 

[Tony Storaro]

So am I.

Skis are often what you make of it. A FIS SL is playful if you do it right.

Agreed 100%. That’s why my next ski will be…wait for it….are you ready….another pair of FIS SL ski rather than a random “allmountain playful dancer, good in air”

 

[cantunamunch]

I think there's several ways to interpret 'playful' here. I mean I think both

"Has a 2 milisecond attention span before being distracted"

and

"Wants to do stuff *you* never even thought of doing"

would properly come under the umbrella of 'playful'.

 

[KingGrump]

Agreed 100%. That’s why my next ski will be…wait for it….are you ready….another pair of FIS SL ski rather than a random “allmountain playful dancer, good in air”

Rather than the ski, it's usually the skier that needs to learn to dance.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Rather than the ski, it's usually the skier that needs to learn to dance.

Let me first learn to charge like Paul Lorenz, Michael Flatley will have to wait for now.

 

[KingGrump]

Let me first learn to charge like Paul Lorenz, Michael Flatley will have to wait for now.

Doesn't take much to charge. Gravity sucks.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Doesn't take much to charge. Gravity sucks.

Can you do it like Paul Lorenz tho? Every wannabe racer can charge, there are very few people who can do it like Paul Lorenz.

 

[altabrig]

I have some older chargers at 2900 gms each and 25m radius. They have become more playful - perhaps by softening and losing camber, but they have also lost pop. Hasn't helped my ability to finesse ski them in any terrain or snow condition. They still charge and the shovels still plow with minimal deflection in the manky heavy stuff.

Heavy skis with thick edges and bases are great if legs are up for it the day or two after a dump. They last. My legs need more finesse days these days when a lighter, rockered, shorter less chargey, more finesse ski is the ticket.

A decade ago Blizzard, Dynastar and others were making the 2700+gm skis with radii up to 40m. Wonder if heavyweights like thise will ever be made again?

Sender squads and the Line optic 114 are not in the same weight class so I wonder about their ability to crush snow vs deflect tips when compared to the XXLdinosaurs.

 

[KingGrump]

Can you do it like Paul Lorenz tho? Every wannabe racer can charge, there are very few people who can do it like Paul Lorenz.

Don't want to do it like Paul Lorenz. Unless I can dial back on the time machine for at least a quarter century.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Don't want to do it like Paul Lorenz. Unless I can dial back on the time machine for at least a quarter century.

Well, see? People are different and have different aspirations in their journey with the planks. Accept variety, be inclusive man

 

[KingGrump]

Well, see? People are different and have different aspirations in their journey with the planks. Accept variety, be inclusive man

Also know your limitations.

 

[altabrig]

Any strong carver requires some

Agreed 100%. That’s why my next ski will be…wait for it….are you ready….another pair of FIS SL ski rather than a random “allmountain playful dancer, good in air”

charging. Just don't take em off piste. Carving playfully is art to experience or watch.

So am I.

Skis are often what you make of it. A FIS SL is playful if you do it right.

 

[Tony S]

Give it up, @Tony Storaro . It's hopeless. We've all been there. You're like a rock trying to defeat the sea. You will lose the patience game.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Give it up, @Tony Storaro . It's hopeless. We've all been there. You're like a rock trying to defeat the sea. You will lose the patience game.

Ever seen the rock of Gibraltar? It is very nice.

 

[cantunamunch]

Ever seen the rock of Gibraltar? It is very nice.

Sure...but it's only a remnant and the Messinian salinity crisis is over