California/Nevada Bring Back Water Bottles To Squaw

[Eleeski]

@John Webb Squaw Valley Mutual Water Company has a couple of wells and a couple water tanks. And fancy new mains and meters which the homeowners had to pay to hook into. One of my new meters froze up this winter - understandable when I saw there was no insulation on the pipes in their vault. I have no idea if the main project was crooked but there are friends and neighbors who will not talk to one another over the water issues.

Our baseline hookup charge in Squaw is more expensive than our total full time house in San Diego. A few years ago National Geographic listed San Diego water as the world's most expensive. Hmmm.

Gold Coast has had the drinking fountain closed due to contamination in the past. At least there is monitoring and informing. Doesn't foster confidence in the water though.

To me, it tastes bad and gives me a stomach ache. Enough to drive me to bottled water.

Eric

I'm not organized enough to wax my skis for the summer much less remember to drain and dry the camelback. Salvaging the camelback is my ritual. Bleach kills (good!) but leaves an aftertaste. Vodka seems to disinfect reasonably well and nobody complains about the aftertaste. Still, I think camelbacks are gross.

 

[Eleeski]

@Gerry Rhoades According to http://resource-recycling.com/node/6828 the recycling rate for California bottles is 75%. It's over 100% at the beach in San Diego - the scavengers will swipe your full containers and pour them out to get the deposit!

Eric

 

[Gerry Rhoades]

That's great for CA, but nationally and globally plastic is a serious problem.

 

[Eleeski]

Last I checked, Squaw is still in California. So bottles there still get recycled.

The whole issue is a bit emotional. My fears about water quality problems and camelback cleanings are irrational paranoia. Since no one has ever died by plastic bottle and permitted landfills will not fill for my lifespan, calling plastic a "serious" problem in a world full of wars, disease and oppression really loses sight of the big picture.

I've never had to clean up the moraine of detritus left after the snow melts at a ski resort. That could be a factor against bottles. But really, it's just a way to make the resort more money by selling fancy refillable bottles.

This has made me think about recycling. Copper should never be recycled! The damage to society and to individuals from copper theft is monumental. They are hitting my lake every couple of weeks - the latest one they took an axe and chopped down the powerpole to get a few bucks worth of copper from the recycler. The recurring costs to me and the public utility power company are so out of line with the value of the copper. Ending copper recycling would end copper theft. A bit of extra landfill is far better than wanton destruction.

Eric

 

[Ecimmortal]

Exhausting.

The only time I have seen someone blame stolen copper on the recycling industry. Recycling copper is not to keep it out of the landfill. It's because it is a necessary useful mineral that touches EVERY part of our lives. We can do without single use plastic bottles. We cannot do without copper.

That being said, all you "reasons" are just excuses for not putting a little extra effort in to something so easy.

 

[scott43]

Why is Squaw's water such a problem? Typically poor water quality is as a result of groundwater contamination from farming or other sources. I would imagine the well water quality would be good there? Is this a drought issue? Using surface water?

 

[Eleeski]

@Ecimmortal If you are referring to copper theft, there are plenty of sources other than my wires for essential copper. And plastic is probably a more essential part of our lives than copper. I resent the idea that rebuilding my copper infrastructure every couple weeks to keep the methheads in $12 is just a little extra effort. If you are referring to my camelback wash, then in the words of Rosannadanna "Nevermind!"

@scott43 Squaw's water went bad for me a few years ago when they drilled a new higher capacity well. I believe they went deeper. More percolation across mineral laden rock. Slower aquifer exchange. Perhaps things went from filtered snowmelt to a deep stagnant camelback. The water is treated and monitored. I couldn't find the last report they sent us but they do treat it a lot. But not every day so there are spikes and dips in treatments. I do OK with fresh Britta filters but I'm guilty of regularly picking up flats of water bottles. I'm not ready to miss ski days with stomach problems so I haven't done a rigorous study (journal with water consumption, type of meal, beer consumption, defecation frequency, stomach pain, camelback cleanliness, etc) but I often (not always) react badly to our tap water. My stomach is sensitive (diverticulitis) and my kids safely drink the tap water so honestly I think there's nothing for you to really worry about.

Bottled water works for me though. Sad that the PC police think that's bad.

Eric

 

[pais alto]

Sad that the PC police think that's bad.

What's sad is that due to your rationalizations, you think that accepted facts and common knowledge are something only for "the PC police."

 

[oldschoolskier]

Think of plastic as gas for your car, part of it comes from the same source.

I've help at a swim meet and removed plastic bottles from the athletes, spectators and officials. Even at a 1/2 day meet the amount of bottles discarded is staggering. Most facilities that ban plastic one use bottles provide free purified water filling stations which list each 500ml fill up as a bottle saved. It is amazing to see the amount of bottles saved at newly installed stations.

Sad part of plastic water bottles is that in a lot of cases the water comes from wells depleting ground water resources for locals causing some of the issues mentioned for the need of bottled water.

That said I keep a flat or two at home for emergencies and rotate the flats through by drinking them slowly.

Strick a happy medium on this issue.

 

[SkiNurse]

I prefer tap or filtered tap water to bottled. I see no reason if you live in North America (Flint, MI is the exception to the rule...) To drink out of a plastic bottle.

 

[cantunamunch]

The whole issue is a bit emotional. My fears about water quality problems and camelback cleanings are irrational paranoia.

Respect for admitting that.

Ending copper recycling would end copper theft. A bit of extra landfill is far better than wanton destruction.
Eric

It would double the price of copper though. And I don't believe you would actually succeed - it would just drive copper recycling out of wherever you banned it.

I used to think that wouldn't happen. But the US-Israeli kosher beef trade and the Indian temple hair trade make me think it would.

 

[pais alto]

What would meth-heads steal if wasn't worth stealing copper?

We don't think they'd stop stealing, do we?

And really, which is worse, this (copper theft):

Or this (copper mine pollution)?

 

[JayT]

Why is Squaw's water such a problem? Typically poor water quality is as a result of groundwater contamination from farming or other sources. I would imagine the well water quality would be good there? Is this a drought issue? Using surface water?

They polluted the acquifer over a decade ago the first time they expanded the village.

 

[Eleeski]

I'm not going to give up my passion for downhill skiing even though it desecrates the mountains, brings crowds to fragile winter ecosystems, drives development, consumes mass quantities of plastic for the equipment - the list of environmental effects go on and on. Our world is not so fragile that we must give up the things we enjoy to survive. And I enjoy the hydration and peace of mind that water bottles give me. I don't want to give that up.

Eric

 

[Tricia]

When we took our summer road trips the past two years, I was impressed with the places that had filling stations instead of bottled water. I'm glad Squaw too these steps and wish other resorts would do the same

FWIW and only slightly related, I hit two plastic water bottles on two different days while skiing Copper. Not fun

 

[JeffB]

What's worse: driving 18k miles per year in a car with avg mpg of 27 or using plastic bottles at a place where one doesn't like the taste of otherwise acceptable water? Or cutting your grass with a gas powered mower and rehydrating with tap water vs using a push mower and rehydrating from the effort with three plastic bottles of water, one of which ends up in the regular trash because the kitchen recycle bin is full and it's too hot outside to empty it right then.

I don't know. Nor do I know the moral calculus of any other contrived equivalency. I do know that I can make a seemingly rational argument for all manner of things, though such arguments derive mostly from my own selfish interests and preferences as opposed to objective rationality.

In the end, the piper will be paid regardless. Maybe I pay, maybe you do, or maybe someone else's kids or grandkids none of us has ever met pays.

We may never agree on what costs are always worthwhile, but let's not make purely personal choices and later claim we were forced into it by the selfish choices of others.

 

[John Webb]

@John Webb

Gold Coast has had the drinking fountain closed due to contamination in the past. At least there is monitoring and informing. Doesn't foster confidence in the water though.
.

Not surprising.
The water,sewer,snowmaking pipes run up along each other to Gold Coast and leak. Pipe for snowmaking burst a couple years ago just before New Years and cracked
the sewer line next to it coating the Mountain Run with brown stuff. Took weeks to fix thesnowmaking line.

 

[Philpug]

IMHO, if people are given the choice of bottled water or refilling stations, there will be an automatic drop in bottle usage immediately but it will not go away. It is needed but it has gotten to the point that it has gotten out of hand.

 

[SkiNurse]

Last I checked, Squaw is still in California. So bottles there still get recycled.

True, but recycling only happens if the item get puts into the recycle bin/container. Otherwise, it goes to landfill with everything else......

 

[Eleeski]

@SkiNurse Pardon my tone but have you read this thread? Recycling rates in California are 75%. The bottle deposit is 5 cents. Squaw has a recycling bin next to every trash can. You have to actively work to avoid recycling at Squaw.

"I see no reason if you live in North America to drink out of a plastic bottle" seems pretty insensitive coming a couple posts after I claimed that Squaw's tap water bothers me and after I related how the well water at my lake is minerally contaminated. The enviro PC hatred of plastic gives you a bunch of likes for an insensitive shallow post that came across as offensive to me.

Eric