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California/Nevada Bring Back Water Bottles To Squaw

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Eleeski

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In 1991 the enviro PC movement was concerned about chlorine disinfection byproducts. It got a lot of traction in Peru where a couple major cities did not chlorinate the water. A massive cholera epidemic hit Peru. While no amount of chlorine could have prevented or stopped all the epidemic, the lack of chlorine was responsible for a large amount of the illness and death. Enviro PC kills.

Eric
 

Philpug

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This is starting to get personal and when there are different views, there is no reason for this to get any more specifically directed than it has already gotten. Lets take a step back and take a break and calm down, if we cannot do that, the thread will be closed.
 

BobMc

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Elee, I seem to remember interacting with you on the future of the Wasatch range. Your position here doesn't surprise me at all.
 
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Eleeski

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Ok Phil, is this aimed at me? Perhaps because I'm naming "enviro PC". Note that I wholeheartedly agree with some aspects of enviro PC, like population control. And we (hopefully) all disagree with some aspects - like the opposition to the interconnect between Squaw and Alpine. While there are some plastic issues hurting the environment that enviro PC has properly identified, they have pushed too far with the war on plastic bottles (in my opinion). So by identifying the movement thusly have I crossed a line? I'd be happy to use a more PC name for this thinking if you suggest one.

Peru might be a bit over the top but it is a proven failure of ideology over rational thought.

Perhaps you are objecting to specifically naming people in my responses. As I am a person, so are the people I specifically respond to. I feel the direct exchange of ideas is worthwhile. I am good friends with many that I have had Internet disagreements with. I hope that none of the people I specifically mentioned took my response as hostile. @SkiNurse got a strong response because it seemed that she hadn't read what had been posted earlier and had pat party line quotes. I apologize for any slights.

If mentioning the people who gave likes to posts that I identified as shallow is offensive, sorry. Wait, that's you and Trish. Seemed like you just skimmed the thread and gave likes to your friends without an in depth look at a relevant issue. I consider you friends - even when we disagree. I wasn't trying to shame you, just get you to think.

Maybe your post was aimed at others. A post (not @SkiNurse ) was extremely offensive to me (I should accept being a crime victim to avoid creating superfund mine sites - the pictures implied as much). Being labeled as "selfish" was puzzling. I understood "Grrr" even if had a different take. I'm tough enough to tolerate this. But this and my response is not the normal fun banter the site fosters.

I worry that Squaw is trying to placate the strict environmentalists with the water bottle policy. Next, they will drop the interconnect between Squaw and Alpine - that would be a tragedy.

Eric
 

Tricia

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Eric, I think the point is, we get it that you have different views, but that doesn't mean that @SkiNurse didn't read the information you provided.
We (she and I) have actually had a discussion about selling bottled water at the slopes and we agree that it hasmore negative than positive. I think the discussion was after I hit a water bottle that was left on the slopes. If that was a person's refillable water bottle, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have left it behind.
We disagree with your view, nothing more and nothing less.

Beyond that, this discussion is treading on the line of becoming a political topic.

Politics, Religion, and Hot Topics
This is a community for talking about skis, skiing, and everything related to skis and skiing. Discussion about subjects such as global warming as it relates to skiing will be allowed so long as it remains respectful and healthy; however, general discussion about politics, religion, and hot topics will not be allowed. We reserve the right to define these categories.
 

SkiNurse

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Eleeski

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I apologize for going away from Squaw and down to Peru. I'll try to even be more specific than all of "North America".

When I claim that Squaw water bothers my stomach, is that something that you can disagree with? The recycling rate and the recycling infrastructure at Squaw are not items to disagree with, they just are.

Water bottles are ubiquitous because of the comfort and utility they offer consumers. To be sure, there are downsides to the bottles. We can disagree on whether the benefits outweigh the costs. Criticism of Squaw's management and decisions may degrade into a political discussion but as moderators you need to be very careful to avoid bias.

I post for entertainment. Sorry if I'm not entertaining.

Eric
 

pais alto

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I think views supporting environmental issues can be addressed without using (or thinking of) the dismissive label of "politically correct."
 

cantunamunch

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I'm modestly entertained, Eric. In the spirit of keeping it light, I posit that it is more comfort than utility and, further, the average consumer is far more sensible of comfort rather than utility.
 

JayT

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Next, they will drop the interconnect between Squaw and Alpine - that would be a tragedy.

To some people, having a gondola run along the edge of (or into) a wilderness zone is considered a tragedy. Or for those willing to hike to stashes.

I'm kind of indifferent on that whole debate and see pros and cons. But you speak about things in such a way as if you think your opinion is a fact and people are crazy not to agree. Just saying.
 

Xela

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I cleaned my Camelbak tube last week using a length of parachute cord with a figure-8 knot in it. My wife was right; there was mold in the tube!
 
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Eleeski

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@JayT I've been warned already so I had better not go into the new gondola issue. Although a bit of controversy does increase the viewership so there's a balance they might accept.

I do stand by my facts. Denying what is real can be disingenuous. How things get interpreted can vary. I'm fine with that. It's OK to say recycling might be a poor environmental option but not really honest to say that recycling isn't happening at Squaw.

@cantunamunch Good point on the comfort vs utility. Of course, riding a lift is a lot more comfortable than hiking for your turns. I don't think I'd ski if I could only hike up.

For all my posturing for bottled water, I prefer Gatorade. Sugar, fluid and comfortable rehydration. And a cookie. I'll really go off if they try to take away my sweets!

Eric
 

Alexzn

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Eric-

The Peru example has nothing to do with "EnviroPC". If you stop disinfecting your water supply, this is stupidity. It happens on both sides of the environmental debate, unfortunately.

Generally, in the US good tap water is a better, cheaper, and safer solution than bottled water. It is a fact, and it took massive public infrastructure investment to get there. There is a place in this world for bottled water, undeniably, tap water just does not taste good sometimes, sometimes it is not available, and water supplies do go bad from time to time. And then there is Flint, MI.

Filtering tap water is another option. by the way Brita is probably one of the low tech solutions, you may look into an inline water filtering system for your house if you don't like the taste of your tap. Just don't forget to change cartridges at scheduled intervals. I have not noticed tap water at Squaw tasting bad yet, but it always comes out of the filtering station. Of course the new Squaw policy is a brilliant way to make money for them by selling expensive single-use "refillable" bottles to the customers. That they sell it as an environmentally friendly gesture is a marketing coupe-de-grace.

As for the interconnect, it's not an environmental issue at all. It's closely tied with the the village expansion. If that happens, the gondola will happen almost no matter what the environmentalists say, if it does not, there is no way KSL would sink several million dollars into the interconnect.
 

Tricia

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Eric-

The Peru example has nothing to do with "EnviroPC". If you stop disinfecting your water supply, this is stupidity. It happens on both sides of the environmental debate, unfortunately.

Generally, in the US good tap water is a better, cheaper, and safer solution than bottled water. It is a fact, and it took massive public infrastructure investment to get there. There is a place in this world for bottled water, undeniably, tap water just does not taste good sometimes, sometimes it is not available, and water supplies do go bad from time to time. And then there is Flint, MI.

Filtering tap water is another option. by the way Brita is probably one of the low tech solutions, you may look into an inline water filtering system for your house if you don't like the taste of your tap. Just don't forget to change cartridges at scheduled intervals. I have not noticed tap water at Squaw tasting bad yet, but it always comes out of the filtering station. Of course the new Squaw policy is a brilliant way to make money for them by selling expensive single-use "refillable" bottles to the customers. That they sell it as an environmentally friendly gesture is a marketing coupe-de-grace.

As for the interconnect, it's not an environmental issue at all. It's closely tied with the the village expansion. If that happens, the gondola will happen almost no matter what the environmentalists say, if it does not, there is no way KSL would sink several million dollars into the interconnect.
FWIW, I was talking to someone who takes the garbage and recyclables at Northstar. According to him, the amount of money that can be saved by the resort if they stop selling bottled water, (not to mention bottled soda) in garbage handling alone is huge, never mind the cost of selling a reusable water container. The truth is, most folks won't buy a water container at squaw because they will be carrying their own, and most folks don't pay attention to the proper trash or recycle receptacle to put their cups, bottles and other such stuff.

Eric, no one is saying that you can't bring your own bottled water to Squaw. They're saying that it won't be sold on site.
 
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Eleeski

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Our business is required to have a waste plan. The plan needs to address recycling, waste reduction and even mulch. Our program is not trivial - although nothing of the scale of a ski resort. No matter what they sell, the expensive waste handling will still be required to be in place.

Still, that is an interesting angle on driving the bottle ban.

@Tricia I can't get plastic bags anymore (it's hard to pick up dog poo without them). Are bottles far behind?

Eric
 

crgildart

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FWIW, I was talking to someone who takes the garbage and recyclables at Northstar. According to him, the amount of money that can be saved by the resort if they stop selling bottled water, (not to mention bottled soda) in garbage handling alone is huge, never mind the cost of selling a reusable water container. The truth is, most folks won't buy a water container at squaw because they will be carrying their own, and most folks don't pay attention to the proper trash or recycle receptacle to put their cups, bottles and other such stuff.

Eric, no one is saying that you can't bring your own bottled water to Squaw. They're saying that it won't be sold on site.

I've started wondering how much objection to bottled water is due the known fact that recycling plastic bottles isn't very profitable and sometimes doesn't even break even if the green downstream product fails to sell. Why hasn't Nestle and others tried aluminum cans other than a slight increase in cost per goods sold? I don't see anyone anywhere complaining about beer or pop being sold at national parks or forestry property resorts. I have seen some companies selling water in aluminum cans, but not many.

Also, would a 10 cent deposit on the bottles (and cans) reduce objections?

Is there such a thing as a resealable cap aluminum can/bottle? That would solve most of the objection no?
 

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