Thread Starter
TS
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Bring a Trailer and Cars & Bids Appreciation Thread
- Thread starter Philpug
- Start date
As my mother used to say: rich or poor, it’s nice to have money.
Thread Starter
TS
26k-Mile 1997 Porsche 911 Turbo S
Bid for the chance to own a 26k-Mile 1997 Porsche 911 Turbo S at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #35,077.
bringatrailer.com
400K????????
Yikes! For that price I would buy a new GT3, an Interseries Cayman, a decent tow vehicle, a closed trailer, and have enough left over for... whatever...
Thread Starter
TS
Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. I am not going to say that is a lot for a glorified volkswagen, but...
. Seriously, I have a ton of respect for Turbo Porsches, but I just don't see 400K for this. As mentioned there are so many other ways to get an even better 911 experience for considerbly less...GT2...GT3...the list goes on.
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- Nov 12, 2015
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- 6,357
Maybe he's trying to complete his 911 Turbo collection.
On the 993 Turbo, I think those values get inflated by a couple of influences. You have folks making an investment/appreciation bet because of the value increases. And you get guys who figure they can own the car for some number of years at no significant cost with no depreciation, provided you have a spare couple of hundred grand lying around that you don't need churning out max returns. My brain doesn't work that with cars.
So do you think buying thru BAT is a decent value? As AAPL keeps climbing I've been very tempted to take some profits and buy something fun to drive. More fun than looking at make believe $$$ in an account. The problem is there are too many cars I'd like. A Cayman or an M3. Or a Miata or maybe a TT.
I think you have to evaluateWhat you're buying and the market. Some things appeal to some more than others..
Thread Starter
TS
I think Bat brings a fair value, erring on the high side but I will say I have yet to hear someoen getting a car that wasn't as presented. Depends what your goal is, a driver or collector/garage queen? I woud keep an eye on carsandbids.com there have been some good deals slipping though over there. If you are flexible you should be able to steal something. If you are thinking Miata, I will say NC's are at the bottom of the market, NA's are going for collector money, NB are pretty high, NC's are the steal, especially 06-09..early ones.
BAT you definitely see the frog warts and all..
Thread Starter
TS
Wow...Miata with a Jaguar V6... A Japuar?
carsandbids.com
2002 Mazda MX-5 Miata - Jaguar V6-Swapped with a Manual Transmission
This 2002 Mazda MX-5 Miata is for sale on Cars & Bids! Auction ends August 28 2020.
No interest in a garage queen. Not sure it will ever see a garage. Strictly something fun for use. I need my Suburban every day and the other cars in the house don't thrill me. It'll basically be a free car until something breaks.
Thread Starter
TS
Then I would look more to the land of the rising sun than ze fatherland.
To me this goes under the heading of : "Just because you can doesn't mean you should.". An LS swap would probably have been cheaper, put out significantly more power and be more reliable. I suppose if you had a wrecked S-type sitting in your yard as a donor it could make sense, otherwise...Wow...Miata with a Jaguar V6... A Japuar?
2002 Mazda MX-5 Miata - Jaguar V6-Swapped with a Manual Transmission
This 2002 Mazda MX-5 Miata is for sale on Cars & Bids! Auction ends August 28 2020.
Or maybe even some American muscle if you wanted something easily upgraded without breaking the bank.
To me this goes under the heading of : "Just because you can doesn't mean you should.". An LS swap would probably have been cheaper, put out significantly more power and be more reliable. I suppose if you had a wrecked S-type sitting in your yard as a donor it could make sense, otherwise...
Or maybe even some American muscle if you wanted something easily upgraded without breaking the bank.
No interest in American.
Or a Ford 5.0...
Monster Miatas: Creator of Miatas with Mustang V-8 Power on The Downshift
Monster Miata founder and owner Martin Wilson shares his passion for the V-8 powered roadsters on this episode of The Downshift on WOT!
The 5.0 swap used to be pretty standard and can be done pretty cheap but has largely fallen by the wayside because you can get a whole lot more power and less weight with the more modern LS motors.Or a Ford 5.0...
Monster Miatas: Creator of Miatas with Mustang V-8 Power on The Downshift
Monster Miata founder and owner Martin Wilson shares his passion for the V-8 powered roadsters on this episode of The Downshift on WOT!www.motortrend.com
If you were talking a newer Ford Coyote 5.0, that's a different matter.
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- Nov 12, 2015
- Posts
- 6,357
If I had it, I'd pay way too much money for this.
bringatrailer.com
1973 BMW 3.0 CSL
Bid for the chance to own a 1973 BMW 3.0 CSL at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #35,737.
bringatrailer.com
I've been following BaT since day one, but have yet to buy a car on the site. I have bid, seriously on 3-4 cars. I have also had some serious conversation about helping to launch a similar site, as BaT started to get very busy about 18 months ago. These were pitches made to me.
There are a lot of great, fun cars that do not make it to BaT these days. All about their shelf space. They won't list them. OP mentioned a TT. I have friend who almost gave away a 2003 225hp coupe, which mechanically was perfect and had been well modified. BaT would not list it. Can't recall why. Odometer?
BaT, with it's simple platform and reach, coupled with their very reasonable fees for really high end cars, is just crushing the more established car auction houses. At one point it surprised me that they had not yet sold out one. Not now. They were acquired by Hearst Autos, the group that owns Road and track as well as Car and Driver, in June. Sounds like they are going to fuel it as needed. They have created quite a machine. They had no need to sell, other than to keep growing. Founders are still on board. I bet they had plenty of suitors.
For a car seller, BaT delivers great results if you have a car that is popular, and of interest. If that car comes with low mileage, and is "fully booked" from a service standpoint, that's best. Also, either no accidents, or if a minor dent and respray has taken place, all of the exact repair details. Even better if it's the "right color" for the car. The best selling colors. Think graphite over red leather for a S2000. Limited modifications, or none.
If the car has some real “provenance”, in terms of prior owners, even better.
Frankly, what sells best and highest are absolutely mint, perfect examples. We have seen that over the past few months. The M3, the 240Z, last week’s Porsche 993.
Sellers should have the best professional pictures possible taken to present the car. Well worth the money. They deliver. If you do all that and work carefully with them to "write" the auction, as a seller, I would take my chances there over any other outlet.
The use of a reserve price is something that they can guide you on. I'm a chicken. I'd put a reserve on my car{s}.
Now as a buyer, more and more of the cars are as I described above. Pristine. Perfect. And it seems like a couple or there people come out of the woodwork who bid what to what look like irrational levels. I compare some of the sales prices to what cars sell for on various brand enthusiast forums, where the owners have often fanatically maintained the cars, and BaT seems to outpace them. If you want a driver, maybe a car to autocross, or track, and it can show some wear and patina.....and maybe an odometer that pushes 100K, rather than 15K, you may not find that car anymore on BaT. And you may save thousands on it elsewhere.
Now if you are a collector, and you really, truly know your stuff and have people around you who do, some of what is selling on BaT is absolute best in class, and in some cases destined for a museum. That's not a game for the faint of heart.
BaT is turning down a LOT of cars to be posted, despite the big volume of daily auctions that they run. Those cars are being sold, IMO, on the enthusiast sites, and even on Craigslist. It's amazing what a national search of CL can yield. My brother bought an S2000 for about a third of what a minty one sells for on BaT. One of his long time drivers is a 911SC that is "well worn", but drives like a dream. BaT would never touch it. You would be hard pressed to find a more fun one.
If I were selling a car that I thought would generate the interest, I would be all over BaT. If I were buying, I'd look for one where the circumstances are such that the particular car might not be that "hot". Often a car gets a bad rap early on, for no good reason. Maybe the auction is closing on a strange date, a holiday, the wrong time of the day. Maybe the pictures are not great, maybe......some cars sell at prices that look astoundingly high, and others, simply "too low."
I'll give you an example. If you want to buy a car to drive and have a blast with for say five years, you probably can deal with some surface rust on the frame....and maybe you even take care of it on the cheap. If you are a collector, no way. I see people ALL the time turning their noses up at "rust", when it's very minor. I have driven cars for 15 years, in New England, with much worse, and real rust.
If you play as a buyer, you need, IMO to know what you are doing, and how to value what you're looking at.
My son and I follow BaT.....like addicts. I had one car that got away, because of a couple of irrational bidders. I really wanted it. An Audi B6 S4 Avant, Novaro Blue, Manual, and....a rare "sunroof delete". The car needed to have the engine pulled, and $5K or more of work. The bidder was not going to be denied, particularly when he read comments about the color, the lack of the sunroof, etc. I bid $5K more than I thought was sane, and it sold for something like $20K over that. Have not seen a thing about it pop up on any of the Audi forums in the years since. The buyer ignored comments about what replacing the timing chain and guides, clutch and flywheel....and maybe more, would cost. This was no collector car.
I'd figure out what you really would like for a car, get up to speed and then look around and get educated about how, in what price range, and where they sell. The various car forums are a gold mine. I think we have a number of enthusiasts in our community.
For what you are looking for, you need not spend a ton, or go to BaT. You can check out the prices for a nice, well maintained older Cayman S, and then....check out a mid 2000’s Boxster S. The Boxster is a great driver. With a bit of work and the right tires...a real howl. A friend just bought one for about $10K.
Dollar for dollar, pretty hard to beat a Miata. Right, @Philpug ?
Fun stuff!
There are a lot of great, fun cars that do not make it to BaT these days. All about their shelf space. They won't list them. OP mentioned a TT. I have friend who almost gave away a 2003 225hp coupe, which mechanically was perfect and had been well modified. BaT would not list it. Can't recall why. Odometer?
BaT, with it's simple platform and reach, coupled with their very reasonable fees for really high end cars, is just crushing the more established car auction houses. At one point it surprised me that they had not yet sold out one. Not now. They were acquired by Hearst Autos, the group that owns Road and track as well as Car and Driver, in June. Sounds like they are going to fuel it as needed. They have created quite a machine. They had no need to sell, other than to keep growing. Founders are still on board. I bet they had plenty of suitors.
For a car seller, BaT delivers great results if you have a car that is popular, and of interest. If that car comes with low mileage, and is "fully booked" from a service standpoint, that's best. Also, either no accidents, or if a minor dent and respray has taken place, all of the exact repair details. Even better if it's the "right color" for the car. The best selling colors. Think graphite over red leather for a S2000. Limited modifications, or none.
If the car has some real “provenance”, in terms of prior owners, even better.
Frankly, what sells best and highest are absolutely mint, perfect examples. We have seen that over the past few months. The M3, the 240Z, last week’s Porsche 993.
Sellers should have the best professional pictures possible taken to present the car. Well worth the money. They deliver. If you do all that and work carefully with them to "write" the auction, as a seller, I would take my chances there over any other outlet.
The use of a reserve price is something that they can guide you on. I'm a chicken. I'd put a reserve on my car{s}.
Now as a buyer, more and more of the cars are as I described above. Pristine. Perfect. And it seems like a couple or there people come out of the woodwork who bid what to what look like irrational levels. I compare some of the sales prices to what cars sell for on various brand enthusiast forums, where the owners have often fanatically maintained the cars, and BaT seems to outpace them. If you want a driver, maybe a car to autocross, or track, and it can show some wear and patina.....and maybe an odometer that pushes 100K, rather than 15K, you may not find that car anymore on BaT. And you may save thousands on it elsewhere.
Now if you are a collector, and you really, truly know your stuff and have people around you who do, some of what is selling on BaT is absolute best in class, and in some cases destined for a museum. That's not a game for the faint of heart.
BaT is turning down a LOT of cars to be posted, despite the big volume of daily auctions that they run. Those cars are being sold, IMO, on the enthusiast sites, and even on Craigslist. It's amazing what a national search of CL can yield. My brother bought an S2000 for about a third of what a minty one sells for on BaT. One of his long time drivers is a 911SC that is "well worn", but drives like a dream. BaT would never touch it. You would be hard pressed to find a more fun one.
If I were selling a car that I thought would generate the interest, I would be all over BaT. If I were buying, I'd look for one where the circumstances are such that the particular car might not be that "hot". Often a car gets a bad rap early on, for no good reason. Maybe the auction is closing on a strange date, a holiday, the wrong time of the day. Maybe the pictures are not great, maybe......some cars sell at prices that look astoundingly high, and others, simply "too low."
I'll give you an example. If you want to buy a car to drive and have a blast with for say five years, you probably can deal with some surface rust on the frame....and maybe you even take care of it on the cheap. If you are a collector, no way. I see people ALL the time turning their noses up at "rust", when it's very minor. I have driven cars for 15 years, in New England, with much worse, and real rust.
If you play as a buyer, you need, IMO to know what you are doing, and how to value what you're looking at.
My son and I follow BaT.....like addicts. I had one car that got away, because of a couple of irrational bidders. I really wanted it. An Audi B6 S4 Avant, Novaro Blue, Manual, and....a rare "sunroof delete". The car needed to have the engine pulled, and $5K or more of work. The bidder was not going to be denied, particularly when he read comments about the color, the lack of the sunroof, etc. I bid $5K more than I thought was sane, and it sold for something like $20K over that. Have not seen a thing about it pop up on any of the Audi forums in the years since. The buyer ignored comments about what replacing the timing chain and guides, clutch and flywheel....and maybe more, would cost. This was no collector car.
I'd figure out what you really would like for a car, get up to speed and then look around and get educated about how, in what price range, and where they sell. The various car forums are a gold mine. I think we have a number of enthusiasts in our community.
For what you are looking for, you need not spend a ton, or go to BaT. You can check out the prices for a nice, well maintained older Cayman S, and then....check out a mid 2000’s Boxster S. The Boxster is a great driver. With a bit of work and the right tires...a real howl. A friend just bought one for about $10K.
Dollar for dollar, pretty hard to beat a Miata. Right, @Philpug ?
Fun stuff!
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