Binding settings and unanticipated release

[CalG]

Question?

I am a "look Nevada" sort of guy and run the FX, Pivot< etc etc. When I can, But.....
I was issued a set of Volkl skis with the Integrated WR Markers. and have another setup coming in a week or two

I find it somewhat disturbing that with the Boot sole length "set" properly and the fwd pressure indication according to specification, The heel piece of the binding must start moving rearward even before the boot heel is contacting the heel presser tab.

Freaking bindings are impossible to release with a ski pole press, and damn hard to get into in soft snow conditions.

Note: With the bindings set by a reputable and professional shop that does thousands of skis each season, when "set to numbers" matching my profile, the bindings are just too difficult to get in and out of when you need to do so 50 times per day.

I've set the heel tension back to 7.5 from 8, and lengthened the boot sole length one "cog" to better match my senses.

Note also. I have not skied out of any bindings in more than 10 years. Soft touch, old age? call it what you like... But I get my days in. Any trail, any condition.

What is your take on setting these particular bindings in respect to FWD pressure?

 

[Doug Briggs]

There is a range that is acceptable in forward pressure settings. In theory, if you are in the range it doesn't matter where it is at the tighter or looser end of the range.

This binding?

 

[Philpug]

There is a range that is acceptable in forward pressure settings. In theory, if you are in the range it doesn't matter where it is at the tighter or looser end of the range.

This binding?

Interesting question. We run into this with many system and demo bindings that have a range on both the toe and the heel. Toe might have a range of 303-307 and the heel might have 305-310. There will be some difference in forward pressure. One specific demobinnding that I use, when I was in a 306 boot, I would get some movement in the binding so I would say I was in a 305, much better. In another demo binding, if I said I was in a 304..I couldn't even get into the binding.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Interesting question. We run into this with many system and demo bindings that have a range on both the toe and the heel. Toe might have a range of 303-307 and the heel might have 305-310. There will be some difference in forward pressure. One specific demobinnding that I use, when I was in a 306 boot, I would get some movement in the binding so I would say I was in a 305, much better. In another demo binding, if I said I was in a 304..I couldn't even get into the binding.

I have noticed the same thing. On demos, I set the toe position to get the center of boot sole in the right place according to the binding reference points then start with the 'correct' heel position and adjust only the heel to fix forward pressure. In the displayed WideRide binding a couple posts up, there is only one setting, but the increments are small, 3mm each click, I think. That makes it pretty easy to get the right forward pressure even if the numbers on the binding don't match the BSL.

 

[CalG]

There is a range that is acceptable in forward pressure settings. In theory, if you are in the range it doesn't matter where it is at the tighter or looser end of the range.

This binding?

The green color matches Perfectly!

So yes, that one!

 

[Doug Briggs]

Then on the back of the heel piece there is an indicator that has 5 (?) ticks on it to indicate forward pressure. It is a 3/8 rod or cylinder with a flat side with the ticks on the flat. Is that accurate?

If so, then when the housing of the binding is over any of the ticks you are in the range of correct forward pressure.

I apologize if I'm telling you stuff you already know. I'm also going by memory so I could be wrong about the indicator's appearance.

 

[skibob]

I always check forward pressure and have never found it to be out of range. Just lucky? My bindings and my family mainly.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I always check forward pressure and have never found it to be out of range. Just lucky? My bindings and my family mainly.

Well that is good! You set up your own bindings?

 

[CalG]

Then on the back of the heel piece there is an indicator that has 5 (?) ticks on it to indicate forward pressure. It is a 3/8 rod or cylinder with a flat side with the ticks on the flat. Is that accurate?

If so, then when the housing of the binding is over any of the ticks you are in the range of correct forward pressure.

I apologize if I'm telling you stuff you already know. I'm also going by memory so I could be wrong about the indicator's appearance.

Doug

You are doing fine! Good memory (of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most!)

I've certainly set the adjustments to the "soft side". If I ski out , I will consult with a large + 'plus' screw driver to make a better situation. ;-)

The "ticks"appear to be on the round side, but that may just be my failing near vision.

When the flat ends in the full round suggests a limit. My preference is to ski 'At the limit', so I guess I'm good....

I'm thinking of machining up a "race plate" so I can mount the Look FCFA016 on to the Volkl rails.

But ,...no, the skis are just tools, not worth the trouble if the Markers can be effective.

 

[skibob]

Well that is good! You set up your own bindings?

I do. I put a13 dems on mine, wife's, daughter's. Son's has Marker system bindings. I believe I set them up right (toe height on the a13s). I even move mine back sometimes. I notice when I do that that the FP might change a little, but still be within the indicated range. It may just be that my sample size is small? A shop tech probably does this more times a day than I do in a year.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I do. I put a13 dems on mine, wife's, daughter's. Son's has Marker system bindings. I believe I set them up right (toe height on the a13s). I even move mine back sometimes. I notice when I do that that the FP might change a little, but still be within the indicated range. It may just be that my sample size is small? A shop tech probably does this more times a day than I do in a year.

It is a pretty much set and forget setting presuming that you get it right the first time. I'd say you know what you are doing.

I got a pair of skis with rental bindgins in the other day that had the settings different marks. I didn't have a boot to confirm that one (or both) weren't right, but I called the guy and said he should bring in his boots to check because there was a good chance at least one was wrong.

 

[Viking9]

I thought this thread was more about how you set your bindings and why, kind of like “ The Guns of Brixton “ - when they come to your door HOW YOU GONNA COME, with your hands over your head ,,,, or on the trigger of your gun ??????

 

[Royal]

On a side note, and referencing the phenomena of the original post, the older LOOK toes like a FORZA(I dont have a newer LOOK toe) with 360 or "vertical release" modes relies on the rearward travel of the heal against the forward pressure spring. in upward travel the front of the binding hits the top of the ski before the boot toe clears the toepiece arms. To fully release the boot must travel to the rear to clear the toepice. Intentionally designed this way?

 

[Doug Briggs]

On a side note, and referencing the phenomena of the original post, the older LOOK toes like a FORZA(I dont have a newer LOOK toe) with 360 or "vertical release" modes relies on the rearward travel of the heal against the forward pressure spring. in upward travel the front of the binding hits the top of the ski before the boot toe clears the toepiece arms. To fully release the boot must travel to the rear to clear the toepice. Intentionally designed this way?

I would posit that the upwards release was 'unanticipated feature' of the forward pressure system required for bindings to function. I'd bet a six pack in Breck that it wasn't a design feature from the drawing board. As it is, it is is rather dubious feature as if you are leaning back you are probably moving your boot forward relative to the ski and not even beginning to move the heel piece back in order to allow the toe of the boot to escape the toe piece 'cup' that holds the boot.

EDIT: I did some research and the upward toe release is NOT just a byproduct of having a forward pressure system in place; it was not an 'unanticipated feature'. My computer experience got the better of me; where a 'bug' can be considered an 'undocumented feature'.

 

[Average Joe]

There is a range that is acceptable in forward pressure settings. In theory, if you are in the range it doesn't matter where it is at the tighter or looser end of the range.

Those of a certain age will remember the Marker FD/MR toe piece, which required forward pressure to be increased along with release settings. That toe was unique, but it begs the question - should we err on the high side when setting bindings to higher settings?

 

[Philpug]

Those of a certain age will remember the Marker FD/MR toe piece, which required forward pressure to be increased along with release settings. That toe was unique, but it begs the question - should we err on the high side when setting bindings to higher settings?

The Marker M27/29/31 heels were that way also, the forward pressure correlated with the tension. Many believe that the new twincam heels need a click or two more forward pressure than just flush.