Featured Binding settings and unanticipated release

Discussion in 'Hardgoods: Skis, Bindings, Poles, and More' started by Doug Briggs, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Making fresh tracks Pugski Ski Tester Industry Insider

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    I was reminded about this video the other day on a FB post that was discussing binding setting charts recommended settings vs what people actually use.

    It is quite possible to have your bindings set to a value so high that the heel will release laterally even when it isn't designed or intended to release that way.

    Watch as this binding, set at a very high setting in both the toe and heel 'releases' during testing.



    The toe does not release. The twisting of the boot within a restricted space created by the toe piece and heel piece results in the heel piece moving backward a sufficient amount that the boot heel slides out of the heel cup of the binding. This is due to the elasticity built into the heel piece to accommodate the flexing and de-flexing of the ski. The adjustment that controls this is referred to as 'forward pressure adjustment' and every binding has it.

    Now imagine that this binding was a Pivot instead of an SPX (or variant). The connecting bars and their connecting points would prevent the heel from moving laterally and the toe would be forced to release at its desired torque value.

    The moral of the story: if you are experiencing apparent toe releases, turning up the toe's release setting may not resolve the release issue as you may currently or subsequently be releasing laterally at the heel.

    Hmmm. People need to know how bindings work before they pick up the screwdriver.
     
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  2. Thread Starter
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Making fresh tracks Pugski Ski Tester Industry Insider

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    Ha! I didn't realize the image of the video captures the exact moment when the heel releases laterally.
     
  3. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    First of all, he is testing a Look binding while wearing a Tyrolia apron. But seriously, he is also holding the testing device incorrectly, you are not supposed to grip the pivot arm. To your point, the majority of pre releases are not from bindings set too low but improper forward pressure.
     
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Making fresh tracks Pugski Ski Tester Industry Insider

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    @Philpug , while my fingers wrap around the pivot arm, my grip is loose and not affecting the test process. :ogcool: I like to have my fingers around the arm so that when the boot releases I have some modicum of control over it. I also insure that I'm permitting the pivoting handle (in the right hand) to be in its neutral position.

    We sell, mount and test a lot more Tyrolia product than Look and Rossi, therefore the apron. ;)

    :beercheer:
     
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  5. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    What is intriguing to me is that the ONLY time I experienced this was also with a PX heel. Coincidence?
     


  6. Thread Starter
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Making fresh tracks Pugski Ski Tester Industry Insider

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    I think it is not a coincidence. I don't care for testing bindings above a skier code N or so as it is quite stressful on my body. Particularly the forward lean test so I won't be volunteering to test this affect on other bindings, but in general the forward pressure would seem to allow this with any binding given a high enough release setting. Why wouldn't it?

    (Note: I have been quite emphatically avoiding the acronym DIN in this and the binding platform width thread. :beercheer: I'm trying to write a wrong. :huh:)
     
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  7. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    The absolutely hilarious thing about this thread is that the video popped up in my Youtube feed hours before I noticed the thread here.
     
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  8. Viking9

    Viking9 Getting on the lift Skier

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    So , I often think about the din setting I use which is always the advanced setting for ability and weight,the thing is with me and some others, can you go to work on Monday and feed your family if you ruin your knee on a slow twisting fall, which I believe is the weekend warriors #1 major knee injury.
    I’m in construction so I can’t, so I ski with my bindings set conservatively.
    My skiing style is to ski aggressively what ever is in front of me but for short bursts then I pull over , gasp for air and repeat. I know I’m the poster child for a pre release body slam but I will take that and blame myself for not falling correctly.
    I WOULD NEVER EVER forgive myself for losing a season and a proper paycheck over a slow fall injury.
     
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  9. Drahtguy Kevin

    Drahtguy Kevin Après aficionado Pugski Ski Tester

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    Hey! I recognize that ski, binding, boot. You still have that boot at the shop, @Doug Briggs? I have the other in my basement...
     
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  10. QueueCT

    QueueCT Getting on the lift Skier

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    Watched a friend eject on a pre-release last week at Copper on a pair of rentals. He was perilously close to the tree line and was lucky that it happened at the right time to just shoot down the fall line. Immediately went to the shop and had the forward pressure adjusted correctly.
     
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  11. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    I didn't think so either. Question, is that an SPX or an older PX/Axial2 heel? I makes me wonder if the forward pressure spring is not proportional to the setting springs.
     
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  12. BGreen

    BGreen Out on the slopes Skier

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    Interesting. I had no idea.
     
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Making fresh tracks Pugski Ski Tester Industry Insider

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    I dunno. If you haven't picked it up, then yes.
     
  14. AngryAnalyst

    AngryAnalyst Booting up Skier

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    The only sort of funny pre-releases I have had was at the top of a steep groomed run when some shop tech didn’t adjust my forward DIN setting at all and it was at 5 (the chart says 8). I was dumb enough not to check. I was honestly so surprised by the resulting fall I completely forgot how to self arrest and ended up but surfing down a good 100-300 vertical feet and hopping the road at the base of the run before powder slowed me down due to accumulated velocity. It was honestly funny looking back but I had words with the shop when I got down the hill.
     
  15. dbostedo

    dbostedo Asst. Gathermeister--Big Sky Team Gathermeister

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    Is that why you're not HappyAnalyst? :D
     
  16. Fishbowl

    Fishbowl A Parallel Universe Skier

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    I used to consider checking my forward pressure every time I clicked in just to be another one of my OCD traits, but after reading this thread, I feel vindicated.
     
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  17. AngryAnalyst

    AngryAnalyst Booting up Skier

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    Grumble grumble hell is other people grumble.
     
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  18. Monique

    Monique bounceswoosh Skier

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    That seems fair. I worry that losing a ski in certain scenarios is more dangerous than keeping it. I may be wrong, or I may overestimate the number of times I encounter such a scenario, but so far choosing the "skier type 3" number for my stats has resulted in keeping the ski when I want, and losing it when I want.

    @Doug Briggs - why did you make that comment about not using the term DIN? Is it not as meaningful as some of us think it is? And how does DIN relate to forward pressure, or if it doesn't, how do you evaluate it?
     
  19. mdf

    mdf back to being an ordinary Gatheree Skier

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    I also noticed Doug did not use the word "pre-release".
     
  20. Thread Starter
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Making fresh tracks Pugski Ski Tester Industry Insider

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    Because it isn't a DIN: The Numbers Game: Bindings, Part 2

    I tested my release settings on my Ranger 98s with KingPin 13s. Another perfect double eject with both skis beautifully stopped with just a couple of feet of tip visible above me after I pivoted around my head, ass over tea kettle. It was worth it. Three runs on Peak 7 following the opening rope drop of the season.

    Yes. The release in video is undesired and until you (the public) read this post, likely unanticipated. Pre-release is a euphemism for: 'Something happened to cause my binding to release before I desired it to.'
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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