A Kalamazoo Ride Group's Worst Nightmare

[scott43]

^^ Sad.

On another topic, I wonder how many people have medical conditions that could impair driving.

One of my sisters had brain surgery at the end of January and couldn't drive. Her restriction was pulled a few months after the surgery, but she still feels uncomfortable driving on a regular basis. She may feel great and drive to work, but by the end of the day the fatigue is too much and she can't drive home. Thankfully, she has a support system to pick her up and take her home, as well as the good sense to know she shouldn't drive.
How many folks don't have that sense and take the risk?

Your sister is awesome and a champ. I'm sure many wouldn't do that..and some probably genuinely would have a hard time not being able to drive.

 

[markojp]

Im not looking forward to seeing the names. I used to ride with the Kalamazoo Bike Club when visiting family years ago. A good bunch of passionate riders... very very sad. Bike paths and multiuse paths are fine if uou ride from 0-15mph, otherwise they're just flat out dangerous. I was given a club jersey by the KBC... still have, will wear it next ride.

 

[Doug Briggs]

My heart goes out to all of those involved.

I agree with most of the sentiments here. I disagree that if there is a rec path (they aren't bike paths around here) that road riders should be fined for being on the adjacent roads. Rec paths aren't for fast sport riding.

I find that there is a lot of ignorance, road rage and just plain lack of consideration by people in motor vehicles towards anyone on 'their' road, not just toward bikers. People are insular and it is making the world a very frightening place.

 

[Carl Kuck]

Both the story in the OP and the story you linked are instances where its not just bad manners with bikes, its gross negligence.

• Driving in the wrong side of the road
• Drunk driving

True 'nuf; the bad manners stuff is now so frequent and widespread I'm starting to accept that as "normal" which is pretty scary in and of itself. Having said that, I just ordered a 115dB air horn designed for bikes. We'll see how that works... #TBVI

 

[Tony S]

Bike paths and multiuse paths are fine if uou ride from 0-15mph, otherwise they're just flat out dangerous.

This. (I would say zero to to ten, personally.) People who advocate riding on bike paths rather than on the road proper don't understand what real road riding is about. In fact this is precisely the cause of almost all of my close calls on the road: Driver passes bike. Driver thinks, "Oh. It's a bike. Bikes go slow. I'm way past it by now. I can turn right without looking." Not.

 

[Tricia]

My heart goes out to all of those involved.

I agree with most of the sentiments here. I disagree that if there is a rec path (they aren't bike paths around here) that road riders should be fined for being on the adjacent roads. Rec paths aren't for fast sport riding.

I find that there is a lot of ignorance, road rage and just plain lack of consideration by people in motor vehicles towards anyone on 'their' road, not just toward bikers. People are insular and it is making the world a very frightening place.

If you look at the post about the rec path the follow up was someone correcting them about fast sport riding.

Here is the conversation:
Mike Lutz Please note... the person that hit, ran over the bikers was in the wrong. That being said. Here is a thought. There's a bike path that runs along that road. I feel that if the state, county, city provides a bike path that runs along a road. It should be a ticket able offense to ride/walk in the road way. Our state, county, city has not only invested big money to create those paths. But, also provided them to non motors for their safety and the safety of motorists. Just a thought. If ticket able. Roads and pedestrians would be safer. Not to mention it would help pay for the investment.
One(of may) reply to this comment -
Dale Brown Idiots, family's use the paths and group cycling usually moves at a pace to exceed 20 MPH and would pose a greater danger to those using the path. Quit making excuses for bad driving!!!

 

[markojp]

Unfortunately, Mike Lutz is a regional news anchor.

 

[fatbob]

Totally agree on the bike paths, in the UK they often aren't fit for purpose even for the most leisurely of bike riding - having yields at every side road, disappearing when they run out of space. Road markings for bikes are scarely any better - in theory we have lots of bike "boxes" at traffic lights putting bikes ahead of and visible to vehicles, in practice it is very difficult to filter into those boxes.

All that said the rising popularity of road cycling is creating problems of its own. I'm as sensitive as any motorist to giving cyclists space but some group rides really don't help themselves - when a peloton is strung out to the extent it prohibits safe overtaking or smaller groups exercise their "right" to ride 2 abreast provoking more marginal overtaking moves from motorists. I'm all for positive assertion but there is a point at which it ramps up the danger as not all vehicle drivers can be depended on to behave rationally or in a risk averse way (often because they don't really have to as a big steel cage protects them from real personal peril)

 

[Monique]

I'm as sensitive as any motorist to giving cyclists space but some group rides really don't help themselves - when a peloton is strung out to the extent it prohibits safe overtaking or smaller groups exercise their "right" to ride 2 abreast provoking more marginal overtaking moves from motorists. I'm all for positive assertion but there is a point at which it ramps up the danger as not all vehicle drivers can be depended on to behave rationally or in a risk averse way (often because they don't really have to as a big steel cage protects them from real personal peril)

The two abreast thing is really frustrating, especially as they always seem to be chatting along and paying zero attention to cars. I got interested in a bike racing team a few years ago, but decided they weren't for me when they mocked another group ride for stopping at stop signs.

That all being said, it's irrelevant to the current situation, unless possibly you take into account road rage because people lose their sh*t when they get in a car. We all have stories. And in cars, surrounded by a metal box with tons of safety devices, it's hard to remember just how vulnerable others are on the road. Or care, I guess.

 

[SkiNurse]

This story makes me want to puke. Horrifying.

 

[skibob]

This. (I would say zero to to ten, personally.) People who advocate riding on bike paths rather than on the road proper don't understand what real road riding is about. In fact this is precisely the cause of almost all of my close calls on the road: Driver passes bike. Driver thinks, "Oh. It's a bike. Bikes go slow. I'm way past it by now. I can turn right without looking." Not.

Yes, OR, I am on main road and car is entering from a side road. They look at me, and pull out in front of me. So long as they see me, its not usually so close that I have to brake. But closer than you would pull out in front of a car.

 

[skibob]

Totally agree on the bike paths, in the UK they often aren't fit for purpose even for the most leisurely of bike riding - having yields at every side road, disappearing when they run out of space. Road markings for bikes are scarely any better - in theory we have lots of bike "boxes" at traffic lights putting bikes ahead of and visible to vehicles, in practice it is very difficult to filter into those boxes.

All that said the rising popularity of road cycling is creating problems of its own. I'm as sensitive as any motorist to giving cyclists space but some group rides really don't help themselves - when a peloton is strung out to the extent it prohibits safe overtaking or smaller groups exercise their "right" to ride 2 abreast provoking more marginal overtaking moves from motorists. I'm all for positive assertion but there is a point at which it ramps up the danger as not all vehicle drivers can be depended on to behave rationally or in a risk averse way (often because they don't really have to as a big steel cage protects them from real personal peril)

I do agree about the peloton breaking up. It is something they need to be sensitive to. But two abreast? I'll ride in the middle of the %*#@ lane if I think it enhances my safety. That said, I don't ride on roads where cars are traveling much more than 30-35 mph.I I mostly use the center of the lane at intersections (left turns or straight where there is a right turn lane). I can accelerate through the intersection with or even ahead of cars driven in a reasonable city manner. And I'm not that fast. I'm just a) paying better attention than 85% of drivers and b) trying.

As for the bike paths themselves, I sometimes encounter professional teams (many of which train here) on one leg of my ride. They are only using it to access other territory, but for 5-10 miles. They are at warmup speed, I assume, because, if I bust my ass really hard, I can keep up with them for a few miles at a time, w/o drafting (which would be ridiculously inappropriate, although I've seen people attempt it).

 

[skibob]

The two abreast thing is really frustrating, especially as they always seem to be chatting along and paying zero attention to cars. I got interested in a bike racing team a few years ago, but decided they weren't for me when they mocked another group ride for stopping at stop signs.

That all being said, it's irrelevant to the current situation, unless possibly you take into account road rage because people lose their sh*t when they get in a car. We all have stories. And in cars, surrounded by a metal box with tons of safety devices, it's hard to remember just how vulnerable others are on the road. Or care, I guess.

I do think cyclists need to be more assertive in "owning" the road so that cars heed them like they would a motorcycle (at least). That said, you do have to be aware of speed differential. Most of my street ride consists of me going 15-20mph and cars going 30-35mph. On higher speed roads, it gets dicier.

But stop signs? Yes, the mocking is ridiculous. I once stopped by a group of tween boys skiing who were mocking their friend for being too slow. I said, "how are you going to feel if he hurts himself trying to keep up with you?". Anyway, seeing cyclists not obey traffic rules ticks me off. I've yelled at other cyclists for not doing it. But I don't see "serious" cyclists do that around here.

 

[scott43]

But stop signs? Yes, the mocking is ridiculous. I once stopped by a group of tween boys skiing who were mocking their friend for being too slow. I said, "how are you going to feel if he hurts himself trying to keep up with you?". Anyway, seeing cyclists not obey traffic rules ticks me off. I've yelled at other cyclists for not doing it. But I don't see "serious" cyclists do that around here.

Well the consequences are low, right? When I drove my broke-ass dirty old pick-up truck..you could see people visibly flinching and holding up before putting their car in front of it. They knew what could happen..

 

[Crank]

I am a very cautious road rider and I don't subscribe to the "assertive" model. I do make sure any cars that are pulling out from side streets, parking lots, driveways see and acknowledge me before I ride by. I try to be aware of cars coming up behind me and get as far over to the right as I can. Car drivers aren't looking for bikes and I have had several friends who have been hit by cars while riding motorcycles - 2 of them were killed.

Not much you can do with a drunk driver. None of the news stories I have read about the Kalamazoo incident have stated that the driver involved was drunk or impaired, but the fact that witnesses had been reporting his erratic driving to the police prior to the accident makes me think he was high as a kite.

As for bike paths, if there is one I am on it even if it is slow or rough it is still a lot safer. There is a path along one of our regular rides that I avoid though unless on my mtb because it is just too rough for the road bike.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Besides the drinking or whatever kind of impairment the driver probably had, I think the real problem is a basic disregard for human life these days.

 

[Tricia]

I was thinking about this thread when I saw a post by one of my Facebook friends who is a competitive paracyclist. This dude will cycle up Mt Rose Highway, as just one example. I can't imagine being at his vantage point with the crazy drivers out there.

Photo credit SRAM

Here is his story

 

[Monique]

I once stopped by a group of tween boys skiing who were mocking their friend for being too slow. I said, "how are you going to feel if he hurts himself trying to keep up with you?".

There are some tragic stories of new motorcycle riders and the same scenario. With grisly consequences on twisty roads or when a sudden stop is required.

 

[scott43]

There are some tragic stories of new motorcycle riders and the same scenario. With grisly consequences on twisty roads or when a sudden stop is required.

I don't do group rides for just that reason...lead or sweep..

 

[skibob]

I am a very cautious road rider and I don't subscribe to the "assertive" model. I do make sure any cars that are pulling out from side streets, parking lots, driveways see and acknowledge me before I ride by. I try to be aware of cars coming up behind me and get as far over to the right as I can. Car drivers aren't looking for bikes and I have had several friends who have been hit by cars while riding motorcycles - 2 of them were killed.
.

I respect that caution, But something to consider. In addition to my friend, the former pro racer, the Girl Scouts also teach a certain amount of assertiveness. Yes, the Girl Scouts. We did a training with the whole family last summer sponsored by my daughter's GS troop. They explicitly counsel against staying as far to the right as you can. Because sooner or later, you are going to have to get left. And you may very well surprise a driver by doing that. Or they just assume you will yield to them. Or worse, they don't notice at all. I was very impressed with the training which covered all kinds of aspects of safety for riding on public streets, riding in groups, as well as basic agility and control drills. We'll probably do it again this summer as a refresher for the kids.