2018 Giro

[SShore]

Genuinely needing and using TUE is one thing, abusing TUEs (al la Sky) and using two times that maximum allowable amount authorized under those TUEs is cheating.

 

[jmeb]

Sorry, I don't buy that Froome's ride was unbelievable. Yes, it was incredible to watch but it wasn't on par with Landis. He gained the vast majority of his time on descents which has everything to do with bike handling and risk taking and nothing to do with power. He put some time in on the flats and ascents. But the only people really racing him were the Tom D group which a) waited multiple times for additional riders and b) all riders besides Tom D did very little work in helping to chase.

If we would've seen a well organized chase comprised of strong riders which Froome punished on flats and ascents, then it would be unbelievable. Instead it was just incredible.

Whether he should've started or not is an entirely different question. I will observe in the various cycling forums I follow, very few people were talking about Froomes AAF for the first two weeks of the Giro when his form looked off. As soon as his form came back -- it was Froome's performance can only be explained by doping.

In either case, the 2018 Giro was as good a grand tour spectators have seen in a decade plus.

 

[Muleski]

This has turned well beyond tedious. Having had recent conversations with a few friends who are pretty darn involved in the sport, I've drawn my own conclusions re: Team Sky, Froome, Wiggins before him.
I also think there is no comparison between these guys, and the top of this sport, and an amateur athlete who's sport mandates that at a certain level, he/she be WADA tested in his/her sport.
I try to understand Eric's position, and I think I do. I do understand his concerns and interest with keeping athletes safe, etc.
However, this is so far past that. Some of what we discussed recently made my head spin.

It's grapes and watermelons and going back and forth yields nothing.

I'm betting on a very dirty Chris Froome starting the TdF, based on more informed opinions than mine. Sky is too powerful, and this will conveniently not be resolved before then. They also are pretty well rumored to be there steps ahead of those doing the testing. Maybe it's been a horrible pollen season, too. More meds.

Out.

 

[Primoz]

@Muleski I have absolutely zero doubt Froome will start TdF. Sky is second US Postal. Same methods, same power, they just upgraded on arrogance side, even though that's pretty much impossible knowing how good Armstrong & Co. were on that field. It's just too much money in Sky that anyone would be allowed to touch them. And then you can have guy with positive doping test still racing and winning.
@Eleeski I'm pretty sure allowed medicines don't have much to do with Froomes magnificent transformation from donkey to race horse... at age of 26. There are mostly unallowed procedures to make stuff like this possible.

 

[SShore]

@Muleski I have absolutely zero doubt Froome will start TdF. Sky is second US Postal. Same methods, same power, they just upgraded on arrogance side, even though that's pretty much impossible knowing how good Armstrong & Co. were on that field. It's just too much money in Sky that anyone would be allowed to touch them. And then you can have guy with positive doping test still racing and winning.
@Eleeski I'm pretty sure allowed medicines don't have much to do with Froomes magnificent transformation from donkey to race horse... at age of 26. There are mostly unallowed procedures to make stuff like this possible.

Brailsford is the most arrogant pr#*k I have ever seen in my life. IMHO they are much worse than Postal/Motorola.

I remember years ago Hampsten talking about one year I think he finished 3rd in the Tour and was beating everyone up the climbs. The next year he was at the same fitness level but guys that couldn't stay with him at the bottom of the slopes the year before were dropping him. He knew it was either time to get on a "program" or quit, he chose the latter. Magical transformations like that don't just happen.

 

[jmeb]

Someone should re-title this thread the "Sky hate 2018 thread".

Since apparently the only story of this race is the alleged, mysterious doping of a team that weren't even a focus of the race until the last 5 days.

Never mind all the incredible riding by the rest of the peloton.

 

[jmeb]

The Badger seems impressed...
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/may/29/chris-froome-cycling-bernard-hinault-giro-ditalia

Wow.

Dopers of yesteryear who mostly got away with it, calling out alleged dopers of today.

If people want to erase doping form the history of cycling, you're gonna have to cross Merckx off the list of all time greats as well.

 

[scott43]

Wow.

Dopers of yesteryear who mostly got away with it, calling out alleged dopers of today.

If people want to erase doping form the history of cycling, you're gonna have to cross Merckx off the list of all time greats as well.

Well and that's kinda my approach..they're all tested the same and some get caught and some don't. Froome got caught and so he's a cheat. The second place guy probably also cheated but didn't get caught, so he's the winner I suppose. Lance still won 7 Tours..he didn't get caught..he confessed but he didn't test positive (ok you can argue if you want but he really didn't..) So he's still a winner to me..you cheat as much as possible and still beat the system, right?

 

[Eleeski]

There are a few scary things floated about here.

First is the pre judgement of Froome and Sky. The case should not be public. Some salbutamol cases have not resulted in suspensions. Sky is not indited.

There is the thought that medicines should not be used at all in competition. Wow, regardless of my athletics, I want to stay as healthy as possible.

Bike racing has a rather unsavory past - as overwhelmingly presented to us. (That the current scandal involves common mild medicine is a tribute to how the sport has improved.) But I enjoy following it (casually). I even watched a stage of the Tour of California! I want to enjoy it as it is - not made to feel like I'm an accomplice to druggies.

The scariest thing is the belief that drugs alone can create a top cyclist. My friend who raced with a young pre drug Lance in Texas said Lance was amazing. Drugs don't replace the natural talent, skill, dedication and sacrifice that goes into a top level athlete. I watched the movie Captain America where a small weakling was given some blue drug and turned into a giant superhero. A silly movie that's pure fantasy!

Eric

 

[cantunamunch]

@Eleeski I completely agree that drugs alone can not create a top cyclist. That is a given, and, if we're citing movies that are *not* fantasy, Netflix even has a movie explicitly demonstrating that drugs alone don't suffice. I don't think anyone in this thread is in serious danger of not understanding that.

Back to @fatbob 's post, the reason anyone still watches cycling is because the sport and the event is bigger than anyone's career. Just the TdF is bigger than LA's career, bigger than Hinault's career, bigger than Mercx' career, bigger than Froome or Wiggo. Yet it is a race, and the rules define what is and is not acceptable.

The corollary to that logic is that someone who holds to it also has absolutely zero interest in preserving any professional's career if preserving the career means inconsistency in applying existing rules. And zero interest in preserving a career if the preservation hides arbitrary exceptions, failures to enforce and just plain political laziness on behalf of those whose duty it is to enforce.

or my own part, I'd be 100% for eliminating professional athletics entirely if it would give better rules consistency overall. Sadly, I don't think it would.

 

[Tom K.]

Breaking TdF News: Froome out, podium girls back in.

Hey, it's my thread, and it's veered WAY off topic, so I'm allowed to be a smarta$$!

Honestly, mods, I think it's run its course. Fine by me if it were locked.

 

[cantunamunch]

Breaking TdF News: Froome out, podium girls back in.
.

How about start line umbrella girls for the jersey wearers - like the Giro very definitely had?