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Why do carvers have edge hold on ice?

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AngryAnalyst

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Umm, from reading your thread earlier I did not get the impression you were looking for stability - can you quickly sum up what direction of stability you're looking for, on what sort of terrain? Thanks.

Also - what is the last time you had someone (professionally) look at your on-snow stance?

Sorry, sunburned because Southern Hemisphere right now.

You are correct stability is not per se what I want. I want edge hold. I think the length conversation came up in the context of stifness in general with someone (not sure how it got garbled in my head though - good catch).

As for the last time I had a lesson - think it was March with one of the Doug Barnes’s on this site. I do have glaring technical flaws but they’re much more upper body related...
 
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AngryAnalyst

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Update part deux: bought the wife and I 4FRNT devs. Unlikely to use them for a while because I broke myself but hopefully before season end.
 

mishka

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I got interested in trying to design custom skis for myself. I would ideally pay someone else to make them, but I am curious about design characteristics.

My idea is taking race stock construction (silver fir + beech or ash + titanal sandwich) and putting it into a shape with a ton of tail rocker. The hope is that the resulting ski would be easy to pivot while having bottomless edge grip which (theoretically) makes it a great east coast hard snow ski for on and off piste.

That plan may be really dumb, in part because nobody makes the ski I'm imagining as far as I can tell.

A key component of the theory behind the ski is that putting a silver fir + titanal core into almost any shape would make it grip extremely well. So, here's the question. If I'm willing to give up a bit of energy out of a turn from skis like the Kastle MX and Stockli AX by throwing a super aggressive tail rocker on to the back (instead of the flat tail), could I still keep (most of the) edge hold?

The only physics constraint I can think of is the amount friction the effective edge of the ski can generate to facilitate a turn. I am giving up some effective edge by heavily rockering the ski. Otherwise I would have thought that a heavy, torsionally stiff ski would bite into ice quite well.

So, what am I missing?

I think you have good idea… And especially for East Coast skis. However construction wise maybe not so much. I wouldn't get hanged up too much on race stock construction (silver fir + beech or ash + titanal sandwich) different brands/custom builders achieve their results differently, which only stay valid IMHO with in the same brand. Same goes for the rocker, stiffness, torsationl stiffness etc. etc.… At least that's how I work. When design new skis

That plan may be really dumb, in part because nobody makes the ski I'm imagining as far as I can tell.=====> not at all. I wouldn't say nobody. I think I have one design go exactly in what you describing which I billed in three different stiffness and flex patterns
 

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