Weekend Surcharge at a Vail Resort

[Eric267]

The Vail resorts around Tahoe have taken to the method of not even posting any day ticket prices until the day of at the ticket window. If you go online you can order ahead and it Gives you a "discount price" when you book it. It's almost always more on weekends but changes depending on early/mid/late season and is pretty close to weekend rate on the weeks around the holidays and CA ski week.

My neighbor gave me a stack of employee 50% vouchers for when people came to visit. They were between $65-80 walk up rate ($130-160 normal) kind of with no rhyme or reason some days

 

[fatbob]

I think fewer people is the goal. If you charge twice as much you only need 1/2 the people!

It's very much not the goal - the goal is as much recurring revenue across the portfolio as possible which includes rentals, F&B, lessons and in VR owned accomodation rentals. The goal is to decide whether you are price sensitive in which case hook you with a season pass and drag you back for more visits and spend or willing to pay a lot more for walk up freedom or a short trip. There is no real secret. Yes it keeps out the regualr joe beginner families because the "cost to sample" is astronomical but then they recoup that by dragging in big spending aspirational consumers.

To be honest I'd be as pissed as the OP given what I've heard about mediocre Oz skiing experiences but then if cost was really an issue to me I'd have gone to the place where I had my pass and told my friends I'd meet them for dinner or some other time.

If you really don't like the way things are going the only real answer for Aussie skiers seems to be to boycott domestic skiing. But that takes mass momentum and sacrifice. It seems to me that Aussies are basically the victims of poor geography when it comes to skiing. Not that different to Brits where largely we have a choice of unreliable (and remote for most of the population) domestic skiing or being hostage to airlines. Fortunately being Europe airline competition is high and flights plentiful though the economic suicidal instincts of a portion of our population are likely to continue to make travel more expensive.

 

[David]

It's very much not the goal - the goal is as much recurring revenue across the portfolio as possible which includes rentals, F&B, lessons and in VR owned accomodation rentals. The goal is to decide whether you are price sensitive in which case hook you with a season pass and drag you back for more visits and spend or willing to pay a lot more for walk up freedom or a short trip. There is no real secret. Yes it keeps out the regualr joe beginner families because the "cost to sample" is astronomical but then they recoup that by dragging in big spending aspirational consumers.

To be honest I'd be as pissed as the OP given what I've heard about mediocre Oz skiing experiences but then if cost was really an issue to me I'd have gone to the place where I had my pass and told my friends I'd meet them for dinner or some other time.

If you really don't like the way things are going the only real answer for Aussie skiers seems to be to boycott domestic skiing. But that takes mass momentum and sacrifice. It seems to me that Aussies are basically the victims of poor geography when it comes to skiing. Not that different to Brits where largely we have a choice of unreliable (and remote for most of the population) domestic skiing or being hostage to airlines. Fortunately being Europe airline competition is high and flights plentiful though the economic suicidal instincts of a portion of our population are likely to continue to make travel more expensive.

But we all need the Joe beginner families to grow the sport! They also could benefit from a decent walk up price when someone is vacationing nearby and wants to sample them. If they like it maybe their next vacation will be there instead. With a few exceptions ridiculous walk up rates have kept me out of Vail and other big resorts since the late 90's and I save $100+ a day when I travel !!!

 

[Sibhusky]

Yes, the fact that I've got a season pass means skiing anywhere else is already "paying double" for the privilege. So the higher that walk up price goes, the less likely I am to consider paying hotels and transport bills as well.

Once the Discounted Passholder from Another Montana Resort at Big Sky was higher than our non discounted window rate, I was done. That may have been ten years back. Haven't even considered the place since then. Anyone know what that price is these days? Maybe our window rates have caught up with their discounts?

 

[fatbob]

Lol.

But we all need the Joe beginner families to grow the sport! They also could benefit from a decent walk up price when someone is vacationing nearby and wants to sample them. If they like it maybe their next vacation will be there instead. With a few exceptions ridiculous walk up rates have kept me out of Vail and other big resorts since the late 90's and I save $100+ a day when I travel !!!

VR do not see it as their job to reach out and grow the sport - they just want to get enough cream from those they can persuade that they are offerring premier experiences and the volume churn from hardcore local ski markets. The same as any destination resort. Want something different - go to Europe and ski really huge areas for around €50ish a day.

I assume part of the problem in Oz is not enough resorts to have feeder hills etc so everywhere is crowded and top dollar.

 

[Ross Biff]

That is a crazy price for such a shit hill. I agree Thredbo is a much better mountain.
Australia is the worst value skiing in the world.

Now, now! It's too easy and cool to trash the Big Guy and your own "little local hill" I've had as good a day as any where at Perisher, Thredbo etc and I've had as bad a day as anywhere at Euro and US areas so let's not carpet bomb everything! BTW, today looks like a great powder day here at P.V. I'm sure I'll have a stupid grin on my face at some time today! There is also a current local debate about the " Epic" effect re the number of people camping in vans in general parkland to get value out of a cheap season pass. It seems someone, somewhere thinks its a good skiing experience, maybe just not so much for spontaneous walk-ups.

 

[geepers]

Another thought - given your buddies had epic passes did they not also have buddy pass days for you to use - it's not a massive saving but it kinda helps. But basically if I had an Epic pass and my friends didn't I wouldn't expect them to ski with me.

Buddy pass can only be used with email access. Too bad if you don't have that right there. Was my last minute choice to ski with the buds - I wouldn't have done it on a weekend if I'd known about that surcharge.

Almost every resort has a higher weekend/holiday rate than a midweek one. I assume though this is something new for Perisher Blue?

1st time I'd met it. If it's common in Nth Amex then I guess it's going to happen down under. I'd not met that before - I had met blackout days where, say, a discount from being the season pass holder at another resort does't apply but overseas I haven't moved around much between resorts.

I think the "hidden" part of it being a surcharge is the biggest gripe.

It's the unexpected bit that's the issue.

I don't really care what they call it - they can call it the Robert A. Katz Retirement Levy if they want - all I care about is the dollar number for the credit card.

Vail is going to be able to gouge the heck out of Aussies. My impression is most of the people who ski down there are couple day a year at most types so the "buy a pass or we will rape you at the day ticket window" model isn't going to work down there. Hopefully people complain more but I doubt VR will care.

Maybe they can gouge and maybe not - there's another ski resort (Thredbo) just down the road which is arguably better. (And believe me, skiers do argue about that. ) I'm not sure what VR's intent is other than pissing people off. There are quiet days in early and late season when they could probably do with extra cash producing customers - pass holders don't provide much incremental revenue. But from now on I won't be one of them. Which means I also won't be spending money on food, drinks, etc, on the mountain and that's a key part of the VR business model.

Then again, maybe their intent is to annoy us Aussies so badly we head for northern winters.

 

[geepers]

VR do not see it as their job to reach out and grow the sport - they just want to get enough cream from those they can persuade that they are offerring premier experiences and the volume churn from hardcore local ski markets. The same as any destination resort. Want something different - go to Europe and ski really huge areas for around €50ish a day.

I assume part of the problem in Oz is not enough resorts to have feeder hills etc so everywhere is crowded and top dollar.

A bit of background. In the state of NSW the resort known as Perisher Blue, and now owned by VR, used to be 4 separate resorts - Perisher, Smiggin Holes, Guthega and (a bit later) Blue Cow. Originally Perisher was the biggest (most lifts) and Smiggin Holes was the beginner area - in fact I learnt to ski there as a kid back in the early '60s. Guthega was really just a club resort. So those 2 were the feeders for Perisher and Thredbo.

In the late '80s Blue Cow was built to rival Perisher, Guthega was developed into a resort proper - still small but at least it had some facilities. We then had 5 resorts (including Thredbo) which kept prices somewhat in check.

And then amalgamation - the owners of Perisher bought Blue Cow and then the other 2 (Smiggin and Guthega) to make the single interconnected Perisher-Blue resort. The general take at the time was this was a good thing as now one lift ticket covered gave access to 4 resorts.

There is another relatively new resort, Mt Selwyn, which is a beginner area. But it is the most marginal in terms of snow cover. It's often done by early September.

So here we are now hoping that Thredbo doesn't get sold to Vail. Otherwise we might find ourselves in longer commutes to the state of Victoria where the Falls Creek resort is separately owned from the Mt Hotham and Mt Buller resorts.

 

[geepers]

Now, now! It's too easy and cool to trash the Big Guy and your own "little local hill" I've had as good a day as any where at Perisher, Thredbo etc and I've had as bad a day as anywhere at Euro and US areas so let's not carpet bomb everything! BTW, today looks like a great powder day here at P.V. I'm sure I'll have a stupid grin on my face at some time today! There is also a current local debate about the " Epic" effect re the number of people camping in vans in general parkland to get value out of a cheap season pass. It seems someone, somewhere thinks its a good skiing experience, maybe just not so much for spontaneous walk-ups.

Well, perhaps @sbooker is actually a PB devotee who's trying to drive people away.

@sbooker, if you are a Thredbo person then consider going stealth.

 

[François Pugh]

I'm beginning to think VR just wants to keep the price high so their clients don't have to ski with the po' folk.

 

[raytseng]

Would it make you feel better if you viewed it as the weekend is the regular price, and the weekdays are "discounted"?
It's all a matter of perspective.

As far as the business and marketting plan; it's not a secret. Vail Resorts is a public company, all the strategies are laid out in the financial and investor documents; including the splitting betwen destination skier versus local skier. If you read a few years worth of them you'll see it all. What people pointed out is all correct, but with all the multiple aspects combined; it's not a single pronged strategy. The high prices is only partially about the destination skier; It's equally about protecting the epic pass sales for next year as people pointed out. And all together it's about getting people to be on the slopes to push the FB, lodging, and skischool

It's not about "the poors" because the resort is already full of poors on epicpasses.

But on that topic, I think one aspect of the pricing is that the passholder is now the "poor". It's the day ticket buyers who are the real whales that should be catered to and have the higher status and not looked down on.
The phrase "loyal passholder" shouldn't hold any leverage or status at epicpass pricing.. People throwing around their epicpass status (typically on social media) as if it means something is ridiculous statement of privilege. For the phrase "loyal passholder" to mean something it needs to be more like the 10-20x single use prices as with other passes or memberships.
It's like someone claiming special privilege and wanting special service because they have a "Gold" costco card while at costco.

 

[sbooker]

Well, perhaps @sbooker is actually a PB devotee who's trying to drive people away.

@sbooker, if you are a Thredbo person then consider going stealth.

I don't do enough skiing at either hill for it to worry me a great deal.
I mean skiing in Oz is .....................skiing in Oz.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

I would bet that Alterra has partnered with Thredbo specifically to keep Vail out. Keep an eye on this one!

 

[geepers]

Would it make you feel better if you viewed it as the weekend is the regular price, and the weekdays are "discounted"?

No.

As far as the business and marketting plan; it's not a secret. Vail Resorts is a public company, all the strategies are laid out in the financial and investor documents; including the splitting betwen destination skier versus local skier. If you read a few years worth of them you'll see it all. What people pointed out is all correct, but with all the multiple aspects combined; it's not a single pronged strategy. The high prices is only partially about the destination skier; It's equally about protecting the epic pass sales for next year as people pointed out. And all together it's about getting people to be on the slopes to push the FB, lodging, and skischool

It's not about "the poors" because the resort is already full of poors on epicpasses.

But on that topic, I think one aspect of the pricing is that the passholder is now the "poor". It's the day ticket buyers who are the real whales that should be catered to and have the higher status and not looked down on.
The phrase "loyal passholder" shouldn't hold any leverage or status at epicpass pricing.. People throwing around their epicpass status (typically on social media) as if it means something is ridiculous statement of privilege. For the phrase "loyal passholder" to mean something it needs to be more like the 10-20x single use prices as with other passes or memberships.
It's like someone claiming special privilege and wanting special service because they have a "Gold" costco card while at costco.

Hmmm. Industry accepted stat for 1st time skiers ever doing a 2nd day is 18%. That's an 82% loss rate on the 1st day. The loss rate may drop for subsequent days but I'll bet they continue to lose a great percentage of those repeat customers in those early days.

Contrast a one day spend for a 1st timer with the amount my family has spent since I started going to PB in the early 60's. Took my wife there, my kids there, intro-ed various friends to skiing there, likely any eventual grand kids would have gone there... So the lifetime value of me as a customer (plus the extra business for family and friends) would be substantial.

The fact that they offer some good bring-a-buddy deals is a sign that customer acquisition costs are non-trivial. Those deals wouldn't be in place if they could do it more cheaply in other ways. Seems kind of short sighted to cut up weekend walk-ins.

I don't do enough skiing at either hill for it to worry me a great deal.
I mean skiing in Oz is .....................skiing in Oz.

What? 8 to 10 months with no skiing? Perish the thought!

 

[Ross Biff]

That is a crazy price for such a shit hill. I agree Thredbo is a much better mountain.
Australia is the worst value skiing in the world.

Now, now! It's too easy and cool to trash the Big Guy and your own "little local hill" I've had as good a day as any where at Perisher, Thredbo etc and I've had as bad a day as anywhere at Euro and US areas so let's not carpet bomb everything! BTW, today looks like a great powder day here at P.V. I'm sure I'll have a stupid grin on my face at some time today! There is also a current local debate about the " Epic" effect re the number of people camping in vans in general parkland to get value out of a cheap season pass. It seems someone, somewhere thinks its a good skiing experience, maybe just not so much for spontaneous walk-ups.

Hmmm. Industry accepted stat for 1st time skiers ever doing a 2nd day is 18%. That's an 82% loss rate on the 1st day. The loss rate may drop for subsequent days but I'll bet they continue to lose a great percentage of those repeat customers in those early days.

Contrast a one day spend for a 1st timer with the amount my family has spent since I started going to PB in the early 60's. Took my wife there, my kids there, intro-ed various friends to skiing there, likely any eventual grand kids would have gone there... So the lifetime value of me as a customer (plus the extra business for family and friends) would be substantial.

The fact that they offer some good bring-a-buddy deals is a sign that customer acquisition costs are non-trivial. Those deals wouldn't be in place if they could do it more cheaply in other ways. Seems kind of short sighted to cut up weekend walk-ins.




What? 8 to 10 months with no skiing? Perish the thought!

Hmmm. Industry accepted stat for 1st time skiers ever doing a 2nd day is 18%. That's an 82% loss rate on the 1st day. The loss rate may drop for subsequent days but I'll bet they continue to lose a great percentage of those repeat customers in those early days.

Contrast a one day spend for a 1st timer with the amount my family has spent since I started going to PB in the early 60's. Took my wife there, my kids there, intro-ed various friends to skiing there, likely any eventual grand kids would have gone there... So the lifetime value of me as a customer (plus the extra business for family and friends) would be substantial.

The fact that they offer some good bring-a-buddy deals is a sign that customer acquisition costs are non-trivial. Those deals wouldn't be in place if they could do it more cheaply in other ways. Seems kind of short sighted to cut up weekend walk-ins.




What? 8 to 10 months with no skiing? Perish the thought!

And remember, if you miss a season you'll be one year older the next time you ski!