We Rise - Rossignol Women's call to action

[Tricia]

I’d be interested in hearing more about about the talk you had with Marjie McKone, to learn more about this initiative from someone involved in marketing it. Any chance you plan on doing a write up based on your talk?

Yes I can get more in-depth.
Note: I will answer you here but then I'll edit the first post of the thread to include it there.

• Q: What influenced you to start We-Rise?
• A: It was initially started in the European market Led by Marion Bonnard, Women’s Category Manager because (from their website)*the demands for gender equality and more female participation in sport have reached a fever pitch across the globe. A wave of positivity and a movement perfectly aligned with Rossignol and our vision of Another Best Day, every day, for every participant.*
• Q: What is the objective?
• A: We want to celebrate Rossignol's community of women and reinforce a commitment to develop dedicated women's' products and a drive to create opportunities for women to come together and share their passion for the mountains. We want to inspire, motivate and support women in the outdoor community, and lift the next generation.
• Q: Why the "We-Rise"?
• A: Our intent is to raise each other up and encourage women to be the best they can be, not just as skiers but in every aspect
• Q: What is your next step?
• A: When we launch we will start with a video of Rossi athlete Marion Haerty, sharing more aspects of her life than skiing, which will be followed by other female Rossignol athletes
• Q: Where do you see the future of this program?
• A: We will be working on some women specific ski clinics at our partner resorts which will be supported by female instructors, female binding/ski techs, and female facilitators. The plan is to have the clinic supported with quality instruction and Rossignol demo gear that is set up by women in a thoughtful manner.
• Q: How do you see Tricia and Pugski helping with this program?
• A: We'd like you to get the word out.

*I will provide a list of resorts where these clinics will be taking place as they are confirmed.
Some preliminary thoughts are places like, Deer Valley, Stratton, Seven Springs, Snowbasin, Crystal, Steamboat

This list will be confirmed as the clinics are set up.

 

[Tricia]

The first Aura, Kenja, Black Pearl, and Dakota came out when I was in high school. The women's-specific Joy line wasn't long after (RIP Big Joy)

I'd gander that a lot of it is reactionary after the launch of Coalition Snow, and needing to form a marketing narrative about women a

Since you're being candid about your age when many of these women skis came out, let me share a little history.
In fact, I won't post it here because I don't want it to dilute the WeRise thread.

 

[Tricia]

The classic skeptical, cynical Gen Z/Millennial fence-straddler in me is really disappointed that the empowerment story is limited to the messages that move gear.

And, though I'm sure Rossignol wants to move gear, We Rise seems to be one women's call to action that is about getting women outside and encouraging each other without an emphasis on gear.

I'm reading mixed messages in this thread, not specifically from you but from different angles and different voices.

If brands really wanted to show that this was a value, not a marketing gimmick, they'd increase sponsorship for their female athletes, research the pay gap and address differences in advancement opportunities across gender, ensure ethical working conditions for factories and supply chain partners (in the apparel world, brands are still walking away from or working with factories to instill that pregnancy testing your female employees is not okay).

That is brilliant!
I'll ask Marjie and Leslie about their balance of female pay and female athlete placement.

That being said, when I asked @Cyrus Schenck about his athletes because there was a question about the male/female ratio and he said he just didn't get female applications. Meanwhile he's building skis for skiers, but not women/men specific. We are all skiers, right?

 

[RachelV]

... That being said, when I asked @Cyrus Schenck about his athletes because there was a question about the male/female ratio and he said he just didn't get female applications. Meanwhile he's building skis for skiers, but not women/men specific. We are all skiers, right?

1) I agree with the fact that we are all skiers, and I think Cyrus is fundamentally a nice dude who is doing his best and makes great skis.

2) I mentioned this in the Ski Diva tread on this same topic, but "no women applied!" is SUCH a cop out when dealing with any underrepresented group. It's what you hear from every company with horrible ratios, every conference will all male speakers, etc etc. There are so many biases at play here. People (women and men!), left to their own devices, recruit people who are basically just like them. If the existing network is all dudes, it's going to bring in mostly dudes. You have to make a conscious effort to recruit outside of the same old places if you want to reach people who have historically been left out. I know this is hard - I've been hiring software engineers for 15 years and it kills me when we don't get a lot of diversity (of all kinds) in our applicant pools despite my best efforts. But "no women came to us" is is not the reason. "We haven't made enough of an effort to recruit outside of the normal channels" is the reason.

This is a huge pet peeve of mine so apologies if I got a little ranty, but I think it's really important. I think "just try a little bit to include people who aren't just like you" is a pretty good MO in general, I guess.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....My idea is shock collars: salesmen must wear them, and they must give the women customers the clickers. Each time a male employee says something condescending or cringe-inducing, *buzz*! ....

Oh YES. Looking for internet examples turned this one up immediately.

 

[Philpug]

1) I agree with the fact that we are all skiers, and I think Cyrus is fundamentally a nice dude who is doing his best and makes great skis.

2) I mentioned this in the Ski Diva tread on this same topic, but "no women applied!" is SUCH a cop out when dealing with any underrepresented group. It's what you hear from every company with horrible ratios, every conference will all male speakers, etc etc. There are so many biases at play here. People (women and men!), left to their own devices, recruit people who are basically just like them. If the existing network is all dudes, it's going to bring in mostly dudes. You have to make a conscious effort to recruit outside of the same old places if you want to reach people who have historically been left out. I know this is hard - I've been hiring software engineers for 15 years and it kills me when we don't get a lot of diversity (of all kinds) in our applicant pools despite my best efforts. But "no women came to us" is is not the reason. "We haven't made enough of an effort to recruit outside of the normal channels" is the reason.

This is a huge pet peeve of mine so apologies if I got a little ranty, but I think it's really important. I think "just try a little bit to include people who aren't just like you" is a pretty good MO in general, I guess.

It is a damned it you/we do damned if you/we don't. Will we ever get to the point where we are all equal? Sadly I am afraid not, but we are a helluva lot closer now than we ever were. Cyrus makes skis for skiers, He doesn't shrink it and pink it, by changing graphics or the construction. Look at the options in the premium ski segment that are directed to women, and until this year, there were only two, Stockli Laser MX and the Motion 85. Why do you think that is? Not because women aren't good skiers nor can afford a ski that has a comma in the price is because they just don't buy them. Cyrus is just not large enough to commit x amount of marketing budget or inventory towards a selgment that will sell maybe 250 skis globally divided now amongst Stockli and now Kastle who is bringing back their Vogue collection.

As far as going and recruiting women...How much does a company have to do to get someone to either get on their product or in the business world come work for them? How much outside the "normal channels? What are the normal channels? I have always been a believer that the cream rises to the top, but at what point do you stop churning before it turns to butter? As far as the repeated "dude" reference, some professionals might take that is being condescending too.

 

[RachelV]

... As far as going and recruiting women...How much does a company have to do to get someone to either get on their product or in the business world come work for them? How much outside the "normal channels? What are the normal channels? I have always been a believer that the cream rises to the top, but at what point do you stop churning before it turns to butter? ...

Yeah, totally, no one is obligated to do any of these things. The bare minimum is something like:

- Try to use more universally appealing language in job descriptions. The same way women walk into ski shop and undersell their ability, women will read a job listing with language like "we need superstars who check all these boxes!!!" and not apply. There's a lot of research that shows that men apply to jobs when they meet 60% of the stated requirements, whereas women don't apply unless they're pretty close to 100%. Just writing things in a way that frames things as less absolute goes a long way.

- Proactively reach out to women's organizations and let them know you'd be psyched to have them. I'm not enough of a ski industry insider to know what these are, but a simple friendly email inviting applicants goes a long way.

So, yeah, again, the status quo is fine if that's all you have the time & energy for, or if encouraging diversity isn't a priority. Since this is a thread about getting women into the outdoors it seemed like a reasonable place to bring this aspect of things up.

 

[laine]

Yeah, totally, no one is obligated to do any of these things. The bare minimum is something like:

- Try to use more universally appealing language in job descriptions. The same way women walk into ski shop and undersell their ability, women will read a job listing with language like "we need superstars who check all these boxes!!!" and not apply. There's a lot of research that shows that men apply to jobs when they meet 60% of the stated requirements, whereas women don't apply unless they're pretty close to 100%. Just writing things in a way that frames things as less absolute goes a long way.

- Proactively reach out to women's organizations and let them know you'd be psyched to have them. I'm not enough of a ski industry insider to know what these are, but a simple friendly email inviting applicants goes a long way.

So, yeah, again, the status quo is fine if that's all you have the time & energy for, or if encouraging diversity isn't a priority. Since this is a thread about getting women into the outdoors it seemed like a reasonable place to bring this aspect of things up.

This.

My background is in an industry dominated by white men - Advertising Creative (though I'm on the Digital Program Management side which is a bit closer on the gender equity). But I've spent years working in agencies where all of the creative is driven by men. So much, in fact, that there is a whole movement about it called the 3% Movement started in 2011, named after the fact that when it began, only 3% of Creative Directors/Leads in the industry were female. (It's up to about 11% eight years later). I went to this conference last year - and with all due respect to @Philpug and @Goose and Cyrus - building gender equity takes a lot of work. So yes, Cyrus would have to work at this, and not wait for women to apply, but actively go to find them.

@RachelV raises excellent points. Gendered language is a real thing (I saw a talk on it last year at the conference). As a generalization, women don't apply for jobs unless they have 100% or more of the qualifications. It takes going to where the women are, reaching out to women's organizations, building relationships. It takes work to get representation - and sadly, a lot of that work has to be performed by male allies. As a whole, I have found the men on this forum to be incredibly supportive and empathetic. It's just that it's hard to know what you don't know. I didn't know a lot of this until learning about this movement and attending the conference.

Anyway to get back to the original post, I hope Rossignol reaches out to more women athletes and also considers female representation in their employees and pay scale.

 

[Primoz]

If brands really wanted to show that this was a value, not a marketing gimmick, they'd increase sponsorship for their female athletes

I will stay just with this part, and not go any further. You do know, at least this part I quoted, is pure business and nothing more then this? Sponsorship money and number of sponsored athletes has nothing to do with men vs. women, but simply with sport, audience and payback revenue. It's not that Atomic would have some weird secret strategy to prevent women getting equal pay, but it's simply that Hischer sold millions more skis then Shiffrin did. And therefore his paycheck was double or triple (probably even more) then Shiffrin's. If there would be 80.000 people showing up on women race, and only 20.000 on men, I'm sure Shiffrin would get more money then Hirscher. But until it's opposite, it's hard to expect there will be equal pay, as it's simply not fair it would be.

 

[Analisa]

@Primoz A few notes:

-Most problematically, your example implies that men are inspired only by male athletes and female athletes will only ever reach a female audience. That is 1000% part of the problem.

-Increasing female pay and equal pay are different concepts. The pay gap between men and women is incredibly stark. And not even always in a justifiable way. (For example, the prizes at some FWT events is split fairly evenly with the gender split for competitors).

-Athletes are selected and compensated for their athletic performance. They are not sales reps. On the downhill side, that's much more concrete, but in freeride, where most of the top athletes opt to film instead of compete, gets much more muddled, and soft factors like personality are given monetary value.

-In terms of "pure business," younger customers expect companies to take stands on social issues. To pull from the link, "If a brand advertises diversity but lacks diversity within its own ranks, for example, that contradiction will be noticed." If a brand wants to run a marketing campaign on empowering women, they absolutely need to have a strong track record of empowering women for it to work.

 

[SBrown]

My fantasy is that they would pay female athletes the same regardless of their usage of social media.

 

[Analisa]

@Primoz Idk dude, your participation on this thread sure gives me the impression that you’re very invested in women’s skiing.

 

[AmyPJ]

I will stay just with this part, and not go any further. You do know, at least this part I quoted, is pure business and nothing more then this? Sponsorship money and number of sponsored athletes has nothing to do with men vs. women, but simply with sport, audience and payback revenue. It's not that Atomic would have some weird secret strategy to prevent women getting equal pay, but it's simply that Hischer sold millions more skis then Shiffrin did. And therefore his paycheck was double or triple (probably even more) then Shiffrin's. If there would be 80.000 people showing up on women race, and only 20.000 on men, I'm sure Shiffrin would get more money then Hirscher. But until it's opposite, it's hard to expect there will be equal pay, as it's simply not fair it would be.

Maybe he sells more skis because that many more males ski than females, which is kind of the whole reason they are starting this campaign? To get more women into the sport (or outside in general?) Getting more people involved in a sport means more people buying goods for that sport. Since there seems to be a saturation point with males, then it makes sense to get more females involved?

I can tell you from my own experience on the days I ski alone and not with a gaggle of friends (majority male friends, I might add,) I am most often the ONLY woman on a gondola car full of men.

I have been wanting to figure out a way to get involved in a campaign like this myself, because my love of being outside extends to mountain biking, which offers even more opportunities because you don't need snow and mountains to mountain bike.

 

[Philpug]

@Primoz A few notes:

-Athletes are selected and compensated for their athletic performance. They are not sales reps.

They are absolutely sales reps. The sole reason to sponsor athletes is to sell gear. Be it skiing or any sport. This is why there is morality clauses in contracts, you are representing a brand when they sponsor you. We can go through the list of best athletes in the world that lost sponsors not because of lack of performance but doing something that didn't represent the values of a company

My fantasy is that they would pay female athletes the same regardless of their usage of social media.

This is far from just a female athlete thing, it is male too. Social Media is a neccessary evil in todays market. Do we don't want to advertising or share our content on other media sites line Facebook? No, but we have to. Social Media outreach is a must for athletes, it is now considered a foundation of why a sponsor will want to sign and invest someone. Sponsorship is simply RIO, return on investment and one of first questions asked is "How many followers do you have?"

 

[Analisa]

@Philpug I didn’t say they didn’t move gear. But they’re not a rep in the true sense of the word with hard sales numbers, quotas, and commissions, which was what was implied.

 

[Analisa]

And how exactly do they measure that? (If you cant, it’s conjecture based on other data points)

 

[KingGrump]

And how exactly do they measure that? (If you cant, it’s conjecture based on other data points)

I would say almost all athletes out there with some sort of logo on their clothes is a paid sales rep for the manufacturer. Not direct sales but sales nevertheless. Good performance and a smile is all that is required. No hard number needed.

Just think how many tennis outfits Federer has to push in a store for his $300 million contract with Uniglo.
Not everything in life are hard numbers. Gut feeling counts too.

 

[Lauren]

Maybe he sells more skis because that many more males ski than females, which is kind of the whole reason they are starting this campaign? To get more women into the sport (or outside in general?) Getting more people involved in a sport means more people buying goods for that sport. Since there seems to be a saturation point with males, then it makes sense to get more females involved?

Yes! 100%. This is exactly what I see as the point in these types of initiatives and campaigns. It's simple capitalism, you need to expand the demand before you can expand your supply. The more women that are getting out there, the more role models there are for the younger generation, and as a result more women will ski and get into the outdoor industry. With more women skiing and crushing it, there will be a larger demand for women's gear. More women out there, leads to more competition, more competition will grow the sport and push it to higher levels. It's not all in the number of women out there, it's also about pushing women's sports to a higher level.

One of the best compliments I've gotten (which was not even meant as a compliment), was a friend of mine that told me that she enjoys riding (mtb) with me because I push her to do things that otherwise she wouldn't have tried. She said if she sees me ride something, she's like "if she can do it, I can too". Whereas riding with her husband, the drive to ride the same things he does isn't there.

 

[SBrown]

This is far from just a female athlete thing, it is male too. Social Media is a neccessary evil in todays market. Do we don't want to advertising or share our content on other media sites line Facebook? No, but we have to. Social Media outreach is a must for athletes, it is now considered a foundation of why a sponsor will want to sign and invest someone. Sponsorship is simply RIO, return on investment and one of first questions asked is "How many followers do you have?"

1. Absolutely it is for men, too, but you know it’s worse for women. Or maybe “better” for some, since you can much more easily make a living as a hot chick who is a mediocre athlete than the other way around.
2. I used the word “fantasy” on purpose.

 

[DoryBreaux]

Especially announced on Indigenous Peoples/Columbus Day.

They're French, they don't care.

I will be the first to say that I don't have that issue now (issue doesn't seem to be the right word here) because I have such a solid contingency of female friends who are avid skiers, but still...

And if you can't find any of them on any given day, @Philpug and I can muster enough feminine energy to suffice for a while.