Vail Resorts Announces 19/20 Pass Holder Credits and ‘Epic Coverage’ for 20/21 Season

[Unpiste]

I thought it was pretty clear from the 'refund terms' that not much would actually give you a refund this season. The way I read it, the pass guaranteed 7 days or more (for local or full Epic) of skiing on days you chose at a resort of your choice.

That's exactly what this is about. Vail, according to @Mugiwara, is failing to honor these terms, and incorrectly cited other unrelated terms in their response. It does sound like a canned response from an overwhelmed customer service department, but that's still not an excuse for taking someone's money, deactivating their pass when they request a refund under the terms both parties agreed to, and then refusing to issue a refund multiple months after the fact.

Refund for Non-Availability of Priority Reservation Days. If you are unable to select one or more of your desired Priority Reservation Days and you have not used your Pass on or before December 7, 2020, you are eligible to receive a refund (a “Reservation Availability Refund Event”).

With a publicly traded company, by law significant numbers of upper management work solely on dealing with shareholder needs and requirements. With a privately owned ski resort be it a big or small company, there is greater focus (or should be) on the skiing public.

The needs of the skiing public are a shareholder concern for Vail. There is no law preventing upper management from caring about or dealing with this kind of concern.

I think this is a commonly repeated misunderstanding of the fiduciary duty a company has towards its shareholders (public or private). If such a law existed, it would essentially prevent a company's management from actually engaging with the company's business, which would be kind of silly and counterproductive.

 

[Seldomski]

I agree that @Mugiwara is definitely entitled to refund if he/she couldn't reserve the 7 days desired in the core season before Dec 7. That was a pretty clearly identified reason in the terms and one I was worried about exercising myself, but didn't ultimately need to. Sorry, I lost the train of this thread and thought we were stuck on the lockdown and/or fear of COVID as reasons for refunds.

 

[Unpiste]

No worries, sounds like Vail made the same mistake.

Sorry if I jumped on anyone. I get a little worked up over these things, especially when terms like this are involved:

Class Action and Jury Waiver. You may only resolve disputes RELATING TO OR arising out of these Terms with us on an individual basis and may not bring and expressly waive the right to bring a claim as a plaintiff or a class member in a class, consolidated, or representative action. Class action, private attorney general actions, and consolidation with other actions are not allowed. You hereby waive your right to a jury trial in any claim or cause of action RELATING TO OR arising out of these Terms.

(Because in the US, you can sign rights like this away in a contract of adhesion while buying a ski pass.) /rant

 

[Mugiwara]

So, I guess the (hopefully) final update in case anyone else has a run in like this. After escalating and sending emails, I gave up an called Amex and filed a dispute. They credited the money right away, but Im sure Vail will come back with a counter claim, so we will see how that goes. However, right after I put in the dispute, I filed a review on yelp for the claims process:

Unfortunately, as with the other stories written here, I have not had a good experience with my claim process. I submitted a claim on December 4th, 2020, for a qualifying epic pass refund. As stated in the terms, Section D, subsection 3 (epicpass.com/info/epic-c…):

********
Refund for Non-Availability of Priority Reservation Days. If you are unable to select one or more of your desired
Priority Reservation Days and you have not used your Pass on or before December 7, 2020, you are eligible to receive
a refund (a "Reservation Availability Refund Event"). Your inability to make any other reservations will not trigger any
eligibility for a refund. Additionally, you will not be eligible for a refund prior to December 7, 2020, if you have at any
time between November 6, 2020, and December 7, 2020, selected your maximum amount of Priority Reservation
Days. The use of your Season Pass at Partner Resorts or outside of the Core Season, including during early season
skiing or riding with EDGE Cards (or other products with similar offerings), will count towards determining whether or
not you have used your Pass and your eligibility for a Reservation Availability Refund.
*********

I was unable to make priority reservation days, and provided screenshot proof of this fact, filed my claim prior to December 7th, and have not used any days. Despite multiple emails and phone calls, I have been unable to talk a single person about my claim. I continue to get transferred to a supervisor who has a number that goes directly to voicemail and hasn't returned any phone calls despite repeated attempts. I waited over 10 weeks hoping for a resolution, but unfortunately am completely unable to actually speak with anyone. This entire experience has been super frustrating, and I am not sure what else to do in order to try to understand what is happening with claims review.

Then, imagine my surprise as less than 4 hours later, the business actually responds. Despite not responding to direct emails and phone calls for over 10 weeks, they respond in hours when posted in a public forum. I guess this is the thing to do going forward....

It is unfortunate you were not able to speak to us. We have experienced a high volume of claims and our ability to have voice-to-voice communication with each passholder who filed a claim is not possible at this time.

Please take note that American Claims Management is the third party representative handling claims filed under Section F-Personal Event Refunds of Epic Coverage. We are not involved with the adjustment of claims filed under Section D-Reservation Availability Refunds of Epic Coverage. Claims involving refunds associated with Section D must be submitted to Vail Resorts.

If you wish, please provide us with your claim number. We will, as a courtesy, contact Vail Resorts on your behalf and report your reservation availability refund claim to them

to which I then responded:

I really do appreciate the prompt response and understand the inability to respond in realtime, but find it unfortunate that my emails sent inquiring about the status and any additional information needed on 12/20, 1/19, 2/2, 2/17, and 2/22, along with multiple voicemails asking questions, all were not acknowledged or responded to. It just seems wrong to me that I had to move my queries to a public forum in order to receive a reply. I started off this entire process back in November by calling Vail Resorts with my section D refund request, and they directed me to open a claim with ACM. So, while it appears that Vail themselves directed me to the wrong method for the claim, but I am only now learning of that fact. I will reach out to Vail again, and send a direct message with Claim number if they require corroborating evidence that the claim was submitted in a timely manner. Review updated to 2/5 as I finally at least have some understanding, but this whole process lasted months longer than it needed to and without any official correspondence.

So, at this point it appears that Vail provided incorrect instructions when I called their customer service live and waited over an hour when attempting to first get the refund. At this point, I doubt they would honor it, as it turns into a he says / she says type of argument, but at least Amex has been responsive. Will see what the counter claim comes back with. I do have evidence of the claim and everything filed prior to all the deadlines, but do not have evidence of the original phone call with Vail as I was not recording calls. So hopefully this will just be done with and I wont have to mess with this anymore. If anyone else is waiting on a claim, note that apparently their third party management partner only handles claims relating to F section issues.

 

[fatbob]

Douchenozzles. Passing the buck between different entities is not an acceptable process.

 

[Wannabeskibum]

Looking like Vail gamed the system pretty well with an insurance product that appeared to cover the things that people were concerned about last summer like resort closures but in fact was pretty worthless around the factors that have really affected ability to use passes like travel bans/ restrictions. Anyone not Canadian resident who bought a pass to ski Whistler for starters (though I think there is something codified there re non US passholders and possibly WA residents?)

Gonna be an interesting time in Broomfield this spring weighing up the consequences of all those people they've stiffed (perfectly legally) jumping into the arms of Alterra etc vs relenting and giving at least rollover credit. I've got a feeling that the megapasses might be jacked up anyway next season to capture a bit of "return to normal" euphoria spend ( though I don't believe next winter will yet be normal) so maybe rollover credit will be easier to give.

I definitely agree. I live in MA, my employer forbids non-essential travel out of state. MA travel restrictions require you to quarentine after re-entering. Vermont requires a 2 week quarentine before entering the state. I work in an office. I submitted a claim yesterday under the travel restrictions "Reason". I got back the following form response this morning -

"Thank you for submitting an Epic Coverage refund request. Your request does not qualify as an Epic Coverage refund event.

Epic Coverage provides refunds for certain personal events such as illness, job loss, injury and mandatory stay-at-home orders. Additionally, it provides refunds for certain resort closures, including closure due to COVID-19. Refund requests for resort closure events must be submitted after the season ends (between May 1 and May 31) for a full or prorated refund based on the portion of the season was impacted and your Epic Coverage selections.

Government travel guidance that does not prohibit the use of your pass such as general quarantines and lodging restrictions are not refund events under the Epic Coverage terms and conditions. Epic Coverage also does not provide refunds for apprehension or inconvenience related to COVID-19.

We know that circumstances regarding the pandemic continue to change and your pass remains active for the remainder of the season, allowing you to make reservations to ski or ride should you choose to do so.

Vail Resorts deeply values the loyalty of its pass holders and recognizes the challenges that you may be encountering this season. At the end of the season, Vail Resorts has said that they will take all guest concerns and challenges into consideration and review how the remainder of the season transpires, including a review of your refund request, in thinking about how to retain the loyalty of its pass holders. To the extent that there is any additional information based on that review they will contact you at that time.

To learn more about Epic Coverage and Frequently Asked Questions, click here or go to https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.

If you feel your refund request was denied in error, please contact us at [email protected]"

I responded with my hope that they certainly will reconsider after the season and even offer some form of roll over credit to 21-22

 

[raytseng]

I definitely agree. I live in MA, my employer forbids non-essential travel out of state.

I want to point out that that your exact phrasiing that your "employer forbade you to travel" is an illegal policy.
However they likely phrased it or applied restrictions to your return similar to the state quarantine rules that effectively make it so hard, that you won't travel (but it is not forbidden). If they did say exactly those words that's an unenforceable policy and you could also sue if they took retaliatory actions on you for legal travel.

 

[Jilly]

I definitely agree. I live in MA, my employer forbids non-essential travel out of state. MA travel restrictions require you to quarentine after re-entering. Vermont requires a 2 week quarentine before entering the state. I work in an office. I submitted a claim yesterday under the travel restrictions "Reason". I got back the following form response this morning -


I responded with my hope that they certainly will reconsider after the season and even offer some form of roll over credit to 21-22

Same thing has happened to one of the Ski Diva's that likes to spend a month in Vermont. She really can't there, from Georgia, but they won't refund anything.

 

[Wannabeskibum]

Well, they didn't explicitly prohibit me from travelling, however, my position in the company requires me to be on-site as much as possible and not work from home. Company policy and MA travel policy are consistent with CDC guidelines, so effectively I was prohibited from out of state travel - to Epic Resorts - cancelled a trip to Breckenridge in January. Also had to cancel a trip to Lake Tahoe in January because south lake tahoe, CA was closed to non-residents of the county. My point being that the Epic Pass Assurance wasn't really Pass Assurance in the same way that Ikon is allowing a roll over credit for an unused pass - and they really need to reconsider that policy

 

[Tony]

Santa Clara County, CA where my wife and I live was under a stay-at-home order from 10 PM on 12/6 until 1/25 which exceeded the 30 days during core season required for a personal event refund. I had reservations Vail Tahoe resorts for Dec. that I canceled because my wife said she did not want me to return home if I went. I finally went Jan. 6-8 and did not go inside anywhere besides family cabin that had not been used for a couple of months. Upon returning, I stayed in downstairs bedroom while my wife was upstairs and eventually got tested, received negative results and returned to sharing a bed. (For those not following the virus study thread this happened on our anniversary which was also the day we learned we both had received placebo during study and received our first vaccine.)

I also skied 1/25-27 and 6 days in Feb. and 3 days so far in March so I have 15 days on my $369 (after 20% off) Senior Tahoe Value Pass. On 2/24, 29 days after our County came out of stay-at-home and using online request form, I requested refund of my wife's unused $309 Tahoe Value Pass (after 44% off since she only skied 3 days in 2019-20) as I didn't want to wait after 30 days from personal event and miss deadline for requesting refund. They said to watch my junk mail and refunds had been taking 4 weeks. Surprisingly, refund check (in her name, of course) arrived for the amount I paid for my wife's pass today, 10 days after I requested refund.

We are planning to ski during upcoming week (although my wife would prefer not to go when storms are predicted so I will get her weather update tomorrow and we had already decided not to ski Monday) so not sure how far ahead we will come out. 2 days at Kirkwood and 1 at Heavenly on Buddy tickets=$268 (the other way around=$293) and removes the direct to lift benefit of a pass. Terms and conditions say 44% credit for only using 19-20 pass for three days will carry over towards purchase of 21-22 pass. I was planning of getting Ikon Passes (and probably same Tahoe Value Passes) for next season and hope both of us get some days at Squaw and Mammoth this Spring.

If anyone wants a copy of what was I put in my refund request, please send me a PM.

 

[Mike Thomas]

I definitely agree. I live in MA... MA travel restrictions require you to quarentine after re-entering. Vermont requires a 2 week quarentine before entering the state.

I hate to tell you this, but you might be the only skier in your state that is complying with those rules.

wannabeskibum: "I wasn't able to use my pass due to travel restrictions"
Vail Resorts: "we had 4.5 million skier visits to VT areas from MA pass holders. Denied."

 

[Wannabeskibum]

I hate to tell you this, but you might be the only skier in your state that is complying with those rules.

wannabeskibum: "I wasn't able to use my pass due to travel restrictions"
Vail Resorts: "we had 4.5 million skier visits to VT areas from MA pass holders. Denied."
Quite honestly, I wouldn’t use my epic pass to ski at Okemo and Stowe, when I can ski at Killington. I use the Epic Pass for Utah, Colorado, and Lake Tahoe

 

[Tony]

I realize that this thread has been dormant for more than 5 months. I have an update to my post #170 (three above this one).

After my wife's pass was refunded in about 10 days (a check to her even though I bought the pass), she skied 3 days in March on Buddy tickets from my pass (2 days @$81 at Kirkwood and 1 @$106 at Heavenly when she got cold and there was nowhere to warm up so I took her back to cabin at 12:30 and had lunch before returning for rest of day). She also skied Kirkwood's closing day in April on an employee 1/2 pass voucher. So I spent about $20 more on her 4 days than was refunded from her pass.

On my third attempt (after twice getting email reply that someone will get back to you and they never did and then trying again a couple of months later) and threatening credit card dispute when they bill for balance of pass in Sept.) they agreed the 44% credit she received on her 2019-20 pass (as she only had 3 days before COVID shutdown) toward 2020-21 pass will be rolled over and applied to her 2021-22 pass as terms and conditions say it 'may'. So her 2021-22 Tahoe Value Pass should again be $309.

Note that she skied more than those 4 days during 2020-21 as I bought full Ikons for both of us that we plan to use for Aspen Gathering and maybe for a blackout day or two at Alpine/Squaw. We both skied 2 days at both Mammoth and Alpine/Squaw in April on next year's passes and I added 1 more at Squaw and 2 at Mammoth in May.

There is a Facebook group Epic Pass Class Action Lawsuit, but not sure they will get anywhere as having to quarantine before or after going skiing was not a Qualifying Event. Not wanting to travel during pandemic or not using pass before season ended were also not Qualifying Events. But I've heard of people getting hurt and not getting refund so I realize their processing of refunds has not been perfect. Maybe they did not apply within 30 days.

 

[Jersey Skier]

I guess at 20% off it doesn't matter if they close 2 days a week.

Dear Crotched Mountain family,
It has been a challenging start to the 2021-22 ski season here at Crotched Mountain. Mother Nature has been historically stingy with natural snow and consistent snowmaking temperatures, and we’ve had to contend with significant hurdles in regard to the COVID pandemic and staffing.
As a result of these challenges, we have made the difficult decision to amend our schedule of operations to Wednesday through Sunday, beginning January 1, with the following hours: Wed. 9-5; Thurs-Sat. 9-9; Sun. 9-5. This change to a five-day schedule will allow our hard-working resort teams to better focus on delivering the best possible ski and ride experience for our guests on those days. We will continue working toward solutions to these challenges and will reassess our operations strategy as the season progresses, so please stay tuned to our website and social media channels for updates.
I’d like to take this opportunity to recognize the dedication of our resort teams and the continued support from our guests that we’ve received thus far this season. We have truly all been in this together, and that unity has been – and will continue to be – vital to our success. We remain committed to doing everything in our power to make this the best season it can be.
Thank you again, and all the very best wishes for a safe and happy New Year.
Susan Donnelly
General Manager
Crotched Mountain Resort

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Crotched seems like it is sucking less than the other NH resorts. Attitash and Wildcat are barely open.