Colorado Unusual Aspen employee lawsuit

[Tricia]

I've known a lot of ins and outs of ski resort employees and have often heard really good things about how Aspen treats their employees as assets and takes care of them, so when I saw this article, I was a bit surprised.

SkiCo’s on-mountain pay policy faces legal challenge

Aspen Skiing Co. workers who make on-mountain commutes are entitled to compensation for their time spent riding chairlifts, snowmobiles and snowcats to and from work, alleged a class-action lawsuit filed this week.

www.aspendailynews.com

One of the intersting things is that it's being called a class action lawsuit but there is only one individual pursuing it.

 

[fatbob]

Title needs correcting as it is not as far as I can see an instructor. Can see the dude has something of a point. Presumably instructors, mountain ops etc get to clock on upon arrival at base whereas I'm guessing F+B staff might have up to a 30 min on hill commute to their place of work. Do lifties' hours only start from when they are at their lift?

 

[Gina D]

Definitely not an Instructor. The article points out that "the lawsuit will need a judge’s certification before it can reach class-status level, which is when the suit can make a public notice for “similarly situated persons” to join the litigation."

This is why he's the only member at this point in time.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

I am surprised that it has taken so long for suits like this to be filed.

I do not know if restaurant employees clock in when they reach the restaurant as alleged. There is significant travel time from the base to the restaurants.

i recall a similar issue when I worked at Breck. At some point, additional time was added to our daily hours for showing up at lineup and for completing paperwork at the end of the day.

I think lifties clock in at the locker room but am not sure.

it will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[scott43]

Flight attendants are watching carefully..

 

[Rich McP]

To me, the moment you become subject to company rules, you are on the clock. If your work place is on mountain, it’s part of your commute. If you have to wear a uni and helmet and haul equipment/supplies, you’re on the clock. Pretty simple.
As an instructor with a locker in one of three locker rooms, I’m paid for travel time from my locker room if I’m assigned work at a different school location. If it’s early season and all of the work is at another location, it’s on me to get there. There are reasonable realistic requirements that go to benefit each way.

 

[coskigirl]

I am surprised that it has taken so long for suits like this to be filed.

I do not know if restaurant employees clock in when they reach the restaurant as alleged. There is significant travel time from the base to the restaurants.

i recall a similar issue when I worked at Breck. At some point, additional time was added to our daily hours for showing up at lineup and for completing paperwork at the end of the day.

I think lifties clock in at the locker room but am not sure.

it will be interesting to see what happens.

I am surprised as well, especially given the details where they were at times hauling trash and other supplies during those commutes.

Flight attendants are watching carefully..

I've always wondered how airlines get away with the way they pay. The period leading up to doors closing (when pay starts I believe) is one of the most chaotic and challenging parts of FA's jobs in my opinion. The fact that they aren't paid for that time is crazy to me.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

I am surprised as well, especially given the details where they were at times hauling trash and other supplies during those commutes.



I've always wondered how airlines get away with the way they pay. The period leading up to doors closing (when pay starts I believe) is one of the most chaotic and challenging parts of FA's jobs in my opinion. The fact that they aren't paid for that time is crazy to me.

Agree. I think most of the flight attendants are union. Likely lots of negotiating on those issues.

 

[scott43]

I've always wondered how airlines get away with the way they pay. The period leading up to doors closing (when pay starts I believe) is one of the most chaotic and challenging parts of FA's jobs in my opinion. The fact that they aren't paid for that time is crazy to me.

One of my neighbours is a flight attendant and with the COVID issues she's been stranded in the plane for hours taking crap from passengers.They actually stop getting paid when the wheels hit the ground.

When I used to travel for work, we would only get paid for actual work time. Flying time was on our time. Negotiate your work contract!

 

[coskigirl]

Agree. I think most of the flight attendants are union. Likely lots of negotiating on those issues.

Probably so. I wonder if ski area management have actually looked to the FA model when they structured their pay models. I'm trying to think of other jobs where daily commutes that include work and/or specific rules are not paid. Perhaps law enforcement where vehicles are parked at home? Other jobs such as trades (plumber, electrician, etc.) with company vehicles that are not also used for personal use?

 

[fatbob]

Perhaps ski areas need to make all lodges independent and allow competition to avoid this issue

 

[Wendy]

I am surprised as well, especially given the details where they were at times hauling trash and other supplies during those commutes.



I've always wondered how airlines get away with the way they pay. The period leading up to doors closing (when pay starts I believe) is one of the most chaotic and challenging parts of FA's jobs in my opinion. The fact that they aren't paid for that time is crazy to me.

Teachers are in a similar situation. I was technically paid from 7:25AM - 2:55PM, by my contract. But of course, the job required a LOT more than that to make school run smoothly. I supervised kids from about 7:10AM as they. entered the building, and then often until 4-5PM after school for extra help, or other school activities. Although we weren't paid hourly, the school day was "contracted time" and time outside of that was not compensated, usually, despite often being an extra 10-15 hours a week.

It seems to me that a ski area could have a clock in site at the base. The employee is a representative of the mountain, even while riding the lift from one restaurant to another. It should be paid time. Employers like to tell their employees they are "professionals" and while, of course, that implies an expectation of professional behavior, the employer doesn't often TREAT them like professionals.

 

[Chris V.]

One of the intersting things is that it's being called a class action lawsuit but there is only one individual pursuing it.

A class action is prosecuted by one or more individual plaintiffs on behalf of a much larger class of persons "similarly situated." The suit is called a "putative class action" until there's a hearing and the judge certifies it as a class action. This order will be granted only if the judge finds there are claims more appropriately pursued in a single case by representatives, rather than individually, and that the plaintiffs and their attorneys are capable of effectively representing the interests of the class.

 

[Lauren]

I've always wondered how airlines get away with the way they pay. The period leading up to doors closing (when pay starts I believe) is one of the most chaotic and challenging parts of FA's jobs in my opinion. The fact that they aren't paid for that time is crazy to me.

I’ve wondered the same. I was on a flight a few weeks ago, and someone was giving the flight attendant a hard time. Finally they gave up and went back to their seat. I heard the flight attendant mutter to herself “all this and I’m not even getting paid yet”. Kind of caught me off guard, I didn’t realize they didn’t get paid until the doors are closed.

Although we weren't paid hourly, the school day was "contracted time" and time outside of that was not compensated, usually, despite often being an extra 10-15 hours a week.

Is there a difference between contracted time and salaried time? It seems like this scenario is all too familiar for many salaried employees (not just teaching).

 

[KingGrump]

Is there a difference between contracted time and salaried time? It seems like this scenario is all too familiar for many salaried employees (not just teaching).

The difference between exempt and non exempt employees.

 

[scott43]

I’ve wondered the same. I was on a flight a few weeks ago, and someone was giving the flight attendant a hard time. Finally they gave up and went back to their seat. I heard the flight attendant mutter to herself “all this and I’m not even getting paid yet”. Kind of caught me off guard, I didn’t realize they didn’t get paid until the doors are closed.

I believe with Air Canada and Westjet, they only get paid from wheels up to wheels down. Sitting around on the tarmac is not included. Sucks..

 

[Lauren]

I believe with Air Canada and Westjet, they only get paid from wheels up to wheels down. Sitting around on the tarmac is not included. Sucks..

Oy vey. That’s even worse than I thought.

 

[Wendy]

I’ve wondered the same. I was on a flight a few weeks ago, and someone was giving the flight attendant a hard time. Finally they gave up and went back to their seat. I heard the flight attendant mutter to herself “all this and I’m not even getting paid yet”. Kind of caught me off guard, I didn’t realize they didn’t get paid until the doors are closed.

Is there a difference between contracted time and salaried time? It seems like this scenario is all too familiar for many salaried employees (not just teaching).

Kinda-sorta the same, but not really, LOL. But based on friends and family members who are salaried, there's not the expectation that most of your work gets done on your own time, after hours, at night, on weekends. Never bonus pay or recognition. I've always had to "clock in" and out like an hourly employee as well. Teachers go into the profession realizing that, but, don't really how much extra time is really needed to do a good job. And that's fine if the salary is respectable for that kind of work. But that's a conversation for another venue!

But yeah, my supervisor in my last job (not teaching) went from hourly to salary, and said she lost a lot of pay after the switch because she worked super long hours.

Flight attendants NOT getting paid till the doors close is crazy. When people are boarding, that's when a lot of shenanigans can occur.

 

[scott43]

A former corp I worked for tried to convert hourly folks to salary. They said no effin way...

 

[Tom K.]

I'm all for the ski area folks getting paid once they're on the way up the mountain. Seems reasonable.

Probably need a separate thread on flight crews. I know two senior pilots and two senior FAs for a major airline and they have their bitches about work, but pay is decidedly NOT one of them.