Things To Look At When Mountain Bike Shopping

[Monique]

IME many higher end riders can't be bothered to do their own work..they have the cash and have better things to do with their time.

I'm not a high end rider, but I am attracted to shiny things and dedicated to keeping the economy going, so I ride a high end bike. I don't have better things to do with my time, but while I'm slowly learning to work on my bike, I'm still paranoid about doing something wrong and either doing damage or finding myself without some component at a critical moment. Fortunately I have memorable bikes and competent shop guys who like to fondle my Ellsworths almost as much as I do. Unfortunately I may have some expensive decisions to make eventually as they're having trouble finding - I think it was seals - for the fork on my Dare.

Anyway, I *do* want to learn to work on my bike. My shop offers the opportunity, over the winter, to have a shop guy work with you on your particular bike to learn how to do - well, anything you want. But my winters are a bit occupied, you know? Maybe this December would be a good time ...

And in my favor, the attraction to shiny things extends to tools, so I do have a lot of what's needed in the garage. And the air compressor is handy for tubeless tires. Still getting the hang of that one.

 

[Tony S]

I'm not a high end rider, but I am attracted to shiny things and dedicated to keeping the economy going, so I ride a high end bike. I don't have better things to do with my time, but while I'm slowly learning to work on my bike, I'm still paranoid about doing something wrong and either doing damage or finding myself without some component at a critical moment. Fortunately I have memorable bikes and competent shop guys who like to fondle my Ellsworths almost as much as I do. Unfortunately I may have some expensive decisions to make eventually as they're having trouble finding - I think it was seals - for the fork on my Dare.

Anyway, I *do* want to learn to work on my bike. My shop offers the opportunity, over the winter, to have a shop guy work with you on your particular bike to learn how to do - well, anything you want. But my winters are a bit occupied, you know? Maybe this December would be a good time ...

And in my favor, the attraction to shiny things extends to tools, so I do have a lot of what's needed in the garage. And the air compressor is handy for tubeless tires. Still getting the hang of that one.

New rubber tonight! (Anyone want to recommend an affordable Presta chuck?)

 

[nay]

Right now it's all geometry and price. The modern geometries are still too fresh to see any reasonable pricing on used bikes, and a step back in time is that nice long OTB stem and other stuff that made your downhill less outrageous and likely more dangerous.

Which is another way of saying the entry point for a good complete off the shelf build is in the $4K range, and that's plainly ridiculous for mass produced components...which takes us back to the low volume (per shop) high markup distribution channel.

 

[ErikL]

Tony, get yourself a Presta adapter or five. It's an $0.80 piece of brass that threads onto the Presta valve so you can inflate it with a Schrader chuck. And if you keep it with your flat kit you'll be able to lend a pump (or borrow one) from anyone regardless of valve/pump compatibility.

I'd add to this discussion to get the best suspension that you can afford outright. It's very expensive to upgrade with aftermarket stuff, and it's one of those components where there's a clear difference between entry-level, decent, and high-end stuff.

 

[Tricia]

Honestly most people working in the industry do not actually know bike fit or what people should be on........I personally see no need to pay a bike shop a couple thousand of dollars to put together my bike. some people need that service. I could also imagine walking into bike shop asking for a bike and ending up a size Medium with a long useless stem..... if I knew nothing I would ride it, and never know any better till I got a new bike.

You, personally. But lets face it, you're not the average biker.
I had a lot of help and input when I got my last mt bike and was happy to have a LBS where I could go test the bikes and determine what I needed.
I think it will be sad to see the LBS go away.

 

[Ron]

@Tony S The best; meaning, dependable, easy and actually works, is the Prestaflator. Full price is $60.00 but sign up for discounts. It will last you a life time and make inflation a breeze. Plus the pressure gauge is accurate. Buy it once....

http://www.prestaflator.com/

 

[Erik Timmerman]

You, personally. But lets face it, you're not the average biker.
I had a lot of help and input when I got my last mt bike and was happy to have a LBS where I could go test the bikes and determine what I needed.
I think it will be sad to see the LBS go away.

I'm a little conflicted on it. I've owned a bike shop, I've worked in them I still have friends that own and/or work in bike shops. This pressure has always existed in some form or another, but it seems stronger and a little different now. I don't think bike shops are going anywhere, but they do need to change. They can't expect to keep getting paid thousands of dollars for just opening a box. Prices in the bike industry have gone nuts. People are riding 12K mountain bikes. My LBS sells them all the time. I was looking at a Yeti the other day that was retailing for around six grand and it had brakes on it that I would have removed and thrown in the trash and didn't even include a dropper post. It seems like the industry has lost all connection to reality.

I think the Direct to Consumer model is very interesting. To be successful in that world would be very hard too. It's not as simple as build a website and ship some bikes. In the world of social media, I think that having good costumer service will be a near impossibility for them. It will be interesting to see how all of the parties involved get along with each other. For example, say I have a Shimano part on my YT that needs warranty. The normal route for that is through the LBS. How is that going to work? Shimano sold it to YT, they need to cover it, but will they. What about Fox, SRAM, etc. some will do better than others, but whatever happens it will all reflect on YT. There are also questions like figuring out sizing and having a chance to demo. But then there's price. For the savings that are on the table, maybe I'd take my chances.

 

[Ron]

Spot-on post! I am amazed at what DONT get for your money on a lot of premium bikes. Where I see an opportunity for LBS's is to stock more higher quality parts and components. I think many shops are losing out on a lot of high margin sales by not catering to these bike owners. No dude who buys a $5-8K Mtn bike is going to put aluminum bar on their bike or wants to wait 5 days for a LBS to get parts in. I dont really understand the logic but it seems to be the case everywhere. I know up here for instance, I wanted a wider handlebar, I went to the only shop in town that carries Enve, I still had to order the bar from them. I like to spend my money locally but few shops carry any stock of anything high-end making the buying decision very difficult. I ordered a Fox Evol DPS as well, shop didn't carry them, had to wait a week for the part to come. I didn't need it right away but again, If I didn't feel the need to help support local shops, I would have just ordered it online and had it in 2 days. I can go to Backcountry.com, order these components and get it for the same price (or less) and have it in 2 days without leaving my house.

 

[Tony S]

Tony, get yourself a Presta adapter or five. It's an $0.80 piece of brass that threads onto the Presta valve so you can inflate it with a Schrader chuck.

Yup. Know all about those. Not my first rodeo. Use one now on those occasions when I need the compressor.* It works, but I'd just prefer not to have to futz with it. I live in a house with two mountain bikes with presta valves, two road bikes with presta valves, two presta-enabled floor pumps, two presta-enabled Camelbak pumps, and two presta-enabled CO2 nozzles. It would just seem more natural and convenient to me to have a presta chuck for my compressor, too. I looked briefly at one a while back and it was stupid expensive so I stopped thinking about it 'til last night. Totally a first-world problem.

+++++++

* Generally with a brand new tire I'll take the valve core out entirely, leaving just the stem. The idea is to maximize air throughput. I mount the tire on the rim and blow it out using the compressor until the beads seat, more or less. In the old days this often required soaping up the beads but rims and tires work better now, so often I postpone / minimize this step until the final inflation. For this you obviously need the Schrader chuck.

Once this looks good I soap up the sidewalls and inject a couple oz. of Stan's through the valve stem. (This obviates the need to unseat the beads you just took the trouble to seat.) Then I re-install the valve core, being careful not to get sealant in the moving parts. I sometimes put a tiny drop of Loctite on the threads that go into the stem, and a tiny drop of oil on the threads on the business end of the thing. This discourages accidental removal of the core in the field when the bugs are swarming and you go to pump up your tire. In the current world I temporarily install a Schrader adapter to allow inflation through the presta valve with the compressor at this point, but I'd prefer to avoid this step.

 

[Tony S]

Spot-on post! I am amazed at what DONT get for your money on a lot of premium bikes. Where I see an opportunity for LBS's is to stock more higher quality parts and components. I think many shops are losing out on a lot of high margin sales by not catering to these bike owners. No dude who buys a $5-8K Mtn bike is going to put aluminum bar on their bike or wants to wait 5 days for a LBS to get parts in. I dont really understand the logic but it seems to be the case everywhere. I know up here for instance, I wanted a wider handlebar, I went to the only shop in town that carries Enve, I still had to order the bar from them. I like to spend my money locally but few shops carry any stock of anything high-end making the buying decision very difficult. I can go to Backcountry.com, order the bar and get it for the same price (or less) and have it in 2 days without leaving my house.

Exactly.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Spot-on post! I am amazed at what DONT get for your money on a lot of premium bikes. Where I see an opportunity for LBS's is to stock more higher quality parts and components. I think many shops are losing out on a lot of high margin sales by not catering to these bike owners. No dude who buys a $5-8K Mtn bike is going to put aluminum bar on their bike or wants to wait 5 days for a LBS to get parts in. I dont really understand the logic but it seems to be the case everywhere. I know up here for instance, I wanted a wider handlebar, I went to the only shop in town that carries Enve, I still had to order the bar from them. I like to spend my money locally but few shops carry any stock of anything high-end making the buying decision very difficult. I ordered a Fox Evol DSP as well, shop didn't carry them, had to wait a week for the part to come. I didn't need it right away but again, If I didn't feel the need to help support local shops, I would have just ordered it online and had it in 2 days. I can go to Backcountry.com, order these components and get it for the same price (or less) and have it in 2 days without leaving my house.

As a guy who has owned and worked in bike shops, I can tell you why they don't have high end parts. It's because mail orders (and CRC is the bog scapegoat these days) literally do sell parts to the consumer for less than the dealers pay for them. You'd have to be nuts to stock high end parts. The EVOL shock even more so since they come in different lengths and travels. The only way you can sell high end parts and make any margin is if you are selling to people that need them right now. The shop in East Burke stocks lots of nice parts because if someone snaps off his RD on Saturday morning, he's gonna do whatever it takes to get going again. Ever see how much tires cost at a bike park? They know they have you (so I always bring a spare). Like the mail order bikes, this isn't new, back in my day it was that CBO ad in the middle of Mountain Bike Trashcan that was the bane of my existence.

In case you are wondering how they do this, they have a house brand bike such as Nukeproof or Sette or some other thing and they order parts at OEM prices for bikes that they never build. It's a tough one to shut down. Some companies probably sell more parts to CRC than they do to Trek.

 

[Superbman]

Some of the big players (like Giant) are moving towards a hybrid direct to consumer system…from what I understand, they'll sell directly to consumers and pay Giant shops to put them together and handle customer service. The truth is, most shops won't sit on a fleet of expensive bikes that are undercut by the internet either. Times are a changing,

 

[Tricia]

@epic & @Ron - Agreed.
Even when I bought my bike in 2009 I was surprised at the high end bikes that had XY & Z components that you want, but then threw a C R A & P component that made me scratch my head. Its like you got something but had to give something up no matter which bike you chose.

 

[nay]

@epic & @Ron - Agreed.
Even when I bought my bike in 2009 I was surprised at the high end bikes that had XY & Z components that you want, but then threw a C R A & P component that made me scratch my head. Its like you got something but had to give something up no matter which bike you chose.

That's the reality and why, when shopping, you are in the position of needing a huge starting budget, and then the time and upgrade budget. I have tried to convince myself to get into the lower end of the FS market, but I know that's just a pay me later reality and the last thing I need right now is to have to become a bike equipment expert. I'd certainly assemble one myself and learn a lot that way - there's huge owner value in that trial and error - but not knowing I'm assembling something that isn't going to satisfy.

Because once you aren't going to be satisfied anyway, I can get a few frills 29'er hardtail for $600 on Craigslist, add the biggest tires possible and run them at inefficient tire pressures, and also still be wanting a bunch more, but with like $3K more in my pocket and zero impulse to upgrade anything. Which is exactly what I did, and is also why those bikes last for like 2 hours for resale and $2K FS sit out there forever.

I still want, but the gap to reality is freaking enormous.

 

[Ron]

There's def' a strategy to push the consumer to upgrade components on new bike so I am not so sure about who's driving that but I'm sure Sram or Shimano have something to do with that. If you look at Santa Cruz, Ibis and some other high-end indies they are making bikes now that are coming with premium setups. I think Santa Cruz is doing the best job with this. They have a partnership with Enve for its components with matching colors and options to buy their bikes ready to go.

On a side-note; if haven't been on a carbon frame, wheels and bars do so! But I did warn you.

@epic What is CRC? I get what you are saying to some sense, but higher-end components are not discounted or at best you might get 10% off MAP on line so I am not understanding the discount issue. As to sizes, yes but "know your customer" comes into play here. For instance, In Steamboat, you know that anyone buying a DPS shock, will be a 7.875 by 2.0 or a 2.25 Its really not that complicated. Plus, there are a lot of folks I know who will by local but are frustrated that they can't. Handlebars: 740, 760 and 800. that covers you. Stems for MTN Bike, 70-40 with the emphasis on 40-55. Brakes, Xt's or Trail, Tires, 2.25-2.35; have a supply of pads for both road and mtn bikes. Stock up on stans, Have a good supply of 24 oz Camelbak insulated bottles, carry more than one Camelbak riding backpack....... Yes, some comments are based on real life experience....

 

[Erik Timmerman]

CRC = www.chainreactioncycles.com

They're in Ireland, but I can still get stuff faster from them and sometimes for less money than I get on employee discount stuff. Trust me, their prices (especially on Shimano and SRAM) really are less than wholesale.

 

[Ron]

Ahh, yes. True. I nver bought anything from them. I really didn't know that. I will still buy from LBS whenever possible

 

[Monique]

@Tony S The best; meaning, dependable, easy and actually works, is the Prestaflator. Full price is $60.00 but sign up for discounts. It will last you a life time and make inflation a breeze. Plus the pressure gauge is accurate. Buy it once....

http://www.prestaflator.com/

It would just seem more natural and convenient to me to have a presta chuck for my compressor, too.

FWIW, this is what I have. Does both Presta and Shraeder. Stupid expensive, so it's right up my alley. Very nice, though ..

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B005Z4D66Q/

 

[Josh Matta]

CRC = www.chainreactioncycles.com

They're in Ireland, but I can still get stuff faster from them and sometimes for less money than I get on employee discount stuff. Trust me, their prices (especially on Shimano and SRAM) really are less than wholesale.

even when I had direct to access on wholesale bike order, I always crosschecked CRC to see if I could spend less money. Quite often I could save money from CRC, and I had access to QBP and BTI. With CRC I have not missed wholesale all too much......
"

 

[skibob]

even when I had direct to access on wholesale bike order, I always crosschecked CRC to see if I could spend less money. Quite often I could save money from CRC, and I had access to QBP and BTI. With CRC I have not missed wholesale all too much......
"

WHat is it with the UK prices on bike stuff? CRC, Wiggle, Pro Bike Kit. I've used them all at times. Like Epic said, faster and cheaper than coming from the US.