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Philpug

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Bindings Part 1 - 1170x538 with shadow.jpg

We have done skis and boots in our Numbers series ... and what brings them together? The binding. The binding is probably the most misunderstood and underappreciated piece of gear that we own, yet it also the one we put the most faith in. A binding can make your day or break your leg -- or at least tear up your knee. A binding is about trust and expectations: we trust that it will work, and we expect it to perform. As to its basic function, "retention" and "release" actually mean the same thing to different people, ie, safety, because sometimes we want the ski to come off, but other times a fall would be the safer option and we want the ski to stay on. And here we are, expecting these two mechanical devices combined from metal, rubber, and plastic to figure out all that.

In Part 1, we will talk about the retention part of the numbers. The retention is what can equate to performance. A binding affects performance because it is the interface between you and the ski; as you put pressure to the boot, it needs to get to the ski. A better binding will be more laterally rigid. If you want your ski to be on a higher edge and expect, say, a 45° angle, you want that ski to be there. A lesser binding can flex laterally because of lighter materials, and you might not get that edge angle you were expecting, thus not the control of the ski that you want.

Like the tires on your car, bindings are crucial to both safety and performance and not a place I would suggest taking a shortcut. When you are looking at a better binding, you are not just buying a bigger or stronger spring, you are also buying a better housing. And, like tires, as long as the binding has a DIN range that matches your setting, it is never a bad idea to get the best option possible. As a binding moves up in price, it usually has more metal in the construction and is thus better built. You will hear a more positive “thunk,” not just a “snap,” when you click in. There will be level of substance, the feel of a machined mechanism and not just some plastic Lego pieces stuck together. Will a better binding be heavier? Usually, but where you might notice the extra hundred grams when carrying the skis, that additional weight will transfer to a better experience on the snow -- and that is what skiing is all about.

There is a reason some bindings are two to three times more expensive than others. Even though they do the same job in release, their performance makes a difference. Most skiers do not need to spend $400 for a top-of-the-line Look Pivot 18/Marker Jester Pro/Tyrolia Attack 18, but the average skier could take one step down from the top, which is actually a giant leap up from the average 12DIN binding that costs $150 to $200. So, for the cost of a lift ticket or Gatorade ;) at your favorite resort, you get to click into a binding that will not only be safe, but also perform better.

Okay, so there weren't that many numbers there, but stay tuned for Part 2!
 
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jmeb

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Ooooo. Bindings. I think more than any other piece of ski equipment there are lots of numbers with bindings.

- Price
- DIN
- Ramp angle
- AFD width
- Mount width
- Mount length
- Elasticity
- BSL adjustment range

This is gonna be good....
 

Yo Momma

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Just had to shell out for two new sets of bindings that are WTR compatible for my Lange Free Tours. OMG the color....... "the horror" (think Marlon Brando..."Apocalypse Now").... but they fit so nice............ MNC?....WTR?......... I'm like...WTF!@%!*
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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Just had to shell out for two new sets of bindings that are WTR compatible for my Lange Free Tours. OMG the color....... "the horror" (think Marlon Brando..."Apocalypse Now").... but they fit so nice............ MNC?....WTR?......... I'm like...WTF!@%!*
Yes. there are more questions than answers right now and much has to do with a compatibilty concerns.
 

Brian Finch

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Pivots or nada.....I mean FF is okay too... (insert shameless Head plug here).
 

fatbob

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So voice of the cynic here. Most of us who put a lot of days and turns on our bindings understand the benefits of metal construction etc etc, some of us may even have legitimate use for that number at the top of the DIN range (although if we are smooov we probably don't need it).

But what about Joe Public what are the stats for injuries caused because cheaper bindings weren't up to the job? After all if they still meet DIN standards shouldn't they all be broadly equivalent releases (turnable heels and differing toe mechanics acknowledged). So for the holiday skier who clocks maybe six days a season why shouldn't they just buy a plasticky system binding for the 30 days use they'll get before they flip the skis after 5 years?
 

jmeb

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Product Unavailable for the Pivots but very nice set up. These guys are game changers. This will be my next setup......which won't be long on my big boys bec I hear, Guardians go Boom! :eek:

Huh. That's odd. Probably just restocking. It's a pretty cool setup with lots of reviews on TGR. Frankly though, Beasts and Kingpins are both incredible touring bindings suitable for most skiers inbounds as well, though not a pivot.

Sorry to derail!
 

jmeb

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So voice of the cynic here. Most of us who put a lot of days and turns on our bindings understand the benefits of metal construction etc etc, some of us may even have legitimate use for that number at the top of the DIN range (although if we are smooov we probably don't need it).

But what about Joe Public what are the stats for injuries caused because cheaper bindings weren't up to the job? After all if they still meet DIN standards shouldn't they all be broadly equivalent releases (turnable heels and differing toe mechanics acknowledged). So for the holiday skier who clocks maybe six days a season why shouldn't they just buy a plasticky system binding for the 30 days use they'll get before they flip the skis after 5 years?

Others correct me if I'm wrong.... but I don't think that the issue with cheaper bindings is primarily about release safety. It's that high end bindings provide more solid interfaces between boot and ski for greater control/precision/power. They also provide greater longevity, including a longer safe-period of use before needing to be retired. Plasticy system bindings are probably fine for holiday skiers if they're buying skis that aren't already 5-8 years old. Hell, I have some plasticky system bindings on some K2 Aftershocks that are still fine after lots of hard days skiing. Skis will die before the binding probably.
 

Yo Momma

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Good point FB......... From my experience @ 208 - 215 lbs, during 2 years, I used a set of "plasticky" Salomon Z12's that I picked up for $100 bucks. They worked great and I never even thought about it. Other than smashing them directly on the pavement I tried my best to destroy them, to no avail............ Not that I'm recommending them but I have found few bindings that weren't up to the task........... other than me being one of the original "Test Dummies" over on the Epic site original Knee Binding thread...... sorry but those things in their original incarnation crapped out after just two days of groomers! #ohnonotdoingthisagain!
 

Yo Momma

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Huh. That's odd. Probably just restocking. It's a pretty cool setup with lots of reviews on TGR. Frankly though, Beasts and Kingpins are both incredible touring bindings suitable for most skiers inbounds as well, though not a pivot.

Sorry to derail!
It's a small niche company so it's common to expect production issues. @ 200+ lbs not 100% sold on the Kingpins.....that's based on the Blister review of downhill performance. I like the Tech behind these cast touring guys. That's the best of both worlds. I tried these for Tele bec I LOVE 22 Designs HHeads..... also new tech that worked in a similar vein to Casttour. Their designs have worked flawless for years........ once i figured out my proper DIN on their gear OUCH! : http://www.telebry.com/about.html
 

Wendy

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So.....My favorite bindings are Look PIvot 12's. I've been on Marker Squires, Jesters, Look PX12, Salomon Z12 and STH 12, and Tyrolia something-or-other. I can't articulate why I like the Look Pivots best other than ease of entry and exit.

If I ski normally with a DIN of 8, is a binding with a max setting of 12 OK? After reading your article, Phil, I thought maybe you were saying someone like me would be better off with a max DIN of 14 because the binding would be sturdier due to more metal in its construction.

Obviously, I have little technical knowledge of bindings, I just go with what has worked best for me over the years.

I'm thinking of mounting a new pair of skis with Look Pivot 12's. Should I look at the 14's instead? Is the WTR Pivot compatible with "regular" boot soles??
 

SBrown

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So.....My favorite bindings are Look PIvot 12's. I've been on Marker Squires, Jesters, Look PX12, Salomon Z12 and STH 12, and Tyrolia something-or-other. I can't articulate why I like the Look Pivots best other than ease of entry and exit....

I'm thinking of mounting a new pair of skis with Look Pivot 12's. Should I look at the 14's instead? Is the WTR Pivot compatible with "regular" boot soles??

Yes. There is a little screw thing you turn on the toe, one setting is WTR, the other is alpine.


IMG_2255.jpg


I like it because it's simple to do and doesn't require toe height adjustment, and it doesn't change the delta.
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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So.....My favorite bindings are Look PIvot 12's. I've been on Marker Squires, Jesters, Look PX12, Salomon Z12 and STH 12, and Tyrolia something-or-other. I can't articulate why I like the Look Pivots best other than ease of entry and exit.

If I ski normally with a DIN of 8, is a binding with a max setting of 12 OK? After reading your article, Phil, I thought maybe you were saying someone like me would be better off with a max DIN of 14 because the binding would be sturdier due to more metal in its construction.

Obviously, I have little technical knowledge of bindings, I just go with what has worked best for me over the years.

I'm thinking of mounting a new pair of skis with Look Pivot 12's. Should I look at the 14's instead? Is the WTR Pivot compatible with "regular" boot soles??
Your first point is key, a binding is about confidence

The Pivot 12 and Pivot 14 are the same exact binding except for the spring. When you go to the 18 (and hopefully soon, the Pivot 15) you get into an all metal housing. @SBrown is correct when she says the Pivot Dual are WTR compatible, they will accommodate both sole designs.
 

Mendieta

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How about system skis with preinstalled bindings? You definitely don't get to make a decision there. Are these any good in general?
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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How about system skis with preinstalled bindings? You definitely don't get to make a decision there. Are these any good in general?
I will mention this in pt. 2 :popcorn: But generally the binding is on par with the quality/performance ski. The one exception that comes immediately to mind is the new Atomic Vantage X80 and 83CTi that comes with the Warden demo/system bindings.
 
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Mendieta

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I will mention this in pt. 2 :popcorn: But generally the binding is on par with the quality/performance ski. The one exception that comes immediately to mind is the new Atomic Vantage X80 and 83CTi that comes with the Warden demo/system bindings.

Yayyyy. I'm so glad we are having this series in bindings. It's the piece of hardware where I have no idea what to get (other than covering the proper DIN). For this season, I paired my Dynastar PT-s 89 with Marker Griffon 90s. Looks like the Griffons are very popular for all mountain skiing. And they seem ok for my current level (intermediate, entering his third season). Getting my popcorn now ...

:popcorn:
 

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