Tesla Recall

[scott43]

Anyone surprised??

Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in U.S. due to defective system

Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that's supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Paul Lutes]

I'd REALLY love to know the background discussions that led up to this, involving regulators, Tesla Board members and Elon. Pretty sure the fireworks were stupendous!

 

[scott43]

Well you had to know there were issues when the engineers working on the self driving module started leaving because they couldn't in good conscience or ethics agree with the implementation and messaging.

 

[fatbob]

Is it actually a physical recall $$$ or simply a software patch that they can force through or otherwise brick vehicles?

 

[scott43]

Is it actually a physical recall $$$ or simply a software patch that they can force through or otherwise brick vehicles?

Over the air software update. I'm not sure about the ability to block updates or bricking non-conformers..

 

[James]

Afaict, it’s a software update to tell people to pay attention when self steering is active. It’s not about FSD. Calling this a recall is drama.

Much ado about not too much. Cue the “downfall of Tesla” news stories, youtube vids, blah blah blah. I mean there’s still vids on how Toyota’s hydrogen burning engine will destroy ev’s.

 

[raytseng]

Afaict, it’s a software update to tell people to pay attention when self steering is active. It’s not about FSD. Calling this a recall is drama.

Much ado about not too much. Cue the “downfall of Tesla” news stories, youtube vids, blah blah blah. I mean there’s still vids on how Toyota’s hydrogen burning engine will destroy ev’s.

Well both yes and no. Yes it's nothing since it's just software change presumably at minor cost to Tesla. But no it's not nothing since it's a formal "Recall" driven by the NHTSA investigation for a pattern of cars crashing with people getting hurt and dying.
The fact that it needed to get this far to force a change, says something even if there is only small procedural change.

 

[scott43]

It would appear there is some level of feedback required to inform autosteer that you're actually still in contact with steering the vehicle. I suppose the will increase the threshold for that interaction to try to ensure people are actually, you know, not allowing the car to drive into pedestrians...

 

[James]

Well both yes and no. Yes it's nothing since it's just software change presumably at minor cost to Tesla. But no it's not nothing since it's a formal "Recall" driven by the NHTSA investigation for a pattern of cars crashing with people getting hurt and dying.
The fact that it needed to get this far to force a change, says something even if there is only small procedural change.

Right, but it’s not changing anything other than giving warnings to the driver to look at the road. That’s not much, imo. Nothing on how the system functions.

Looks like if one continues to use it improperly, you will lose access to it.

——————
The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of ensuring that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to foreseeable misuse of the system.

The software update includes additional controls and alerts “to further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

Autopilot includes features called Autosteer and Traffic Aware Cruise Control, with Autosteer intended for use on limited access freeways when it’s not operating with a more sophisticated feature called Autosteer on City Streets.

The software update apparently will limit where Autosteer can be used.

“If the driver attempts to engage Autosteer when conditions are not met for engagement, the feature will alert the driver it is unavailable through visual and audible alerts, and Autosteer will not engage,” the recall documents said.

Depending on a Tesla’s hardware, the added controls include “increasing prominence” of visual alerts, simplifying how Autosteer is turned on and off, additional checks on whether Autosteer is being used outside of controlled access roads and when approaching traffic control devices, “and eventual suspension from Autosteer use if the driver repeatedly fails to demonstrate continuous and sustained driving responsibility,” the documents say
—————

Tesla Recalls Nearly All Vehicles Sold in US to Fix System That Monitors Drivers Using Autopilot

Tesla is recalling nearly all of the vehicles it sold in the U.S., more than 2 million across its model lineup, to fix a defective system.

gvwire.com

 

[raytseng]

Part of it I think is the consumers were somewhat misled, with corporate and the whole Tesla community doing a wink wink its super smart it will drive for you, except for morons, and of course you are smart and aren't a moron since you're buying a Tesla.
So it takes an event like this to lay down what's "proper" driving and therefore what the system can actually do and not do. I don't think a Tesla salesperson will be able to tell that white lie anymore to sell more units

A little similar to the Toyota floor mats. Now every toyota dealer service appt will take a double floormat or an unsecured floor mat and move it in the trunk and write an explicit instruction into the report.

 

[scott43]

They lied. And they've been caught. I suspect the feedback at the wheel provides the computer with some indicator of engagement. This probably will become more rigorously reviewed. It's unfortunate that it got this far.

 

[James]

I don’t really get the point of auto steer if your hands are on the wheel.

 

[pchewn]

Well both yes and no. Yes it's nothing since it's just software change presumably at minor cost to Tesla. But no it's not nothing since it's a formal "Recall" driven by the NHTSA investigation for a pattern of cars crashing with people getting hurt and dying.
The fact that it needed to get this far to force a change, says something even if there is only small procedural change.

"Cars crashing with people getting hurt and dying." Well, that happens even in vehicles without any auto pilot.

The average autopilot only has to be better than the average driver (to not increase overall damage). It does not have to be perfect.

 

[scott43]

I don’t really get the point of auto steer if your hands are on the wheel.

Bingo

 

[James]

The average autopilot only has to be better than the average driver (to not increase overall damage). It does not have to be perfect.

I think this is Tesla’s point, they still dispute this case but just gave in to end it.

Here’s a couple quotes from a Tesla thread last summer-
—————
I drive 2.5 hours in LA traffic couple times per week, and AP makes the commute more relaxing. I also think it’s safer to have on, given it reacts in stop and go traffic quicker than I might if not entirely focused. On 2021+ with internal camera, you can go a lot longer than 30 seconds before nag (more like 90+ seconds), so long as camera sees you are looking forward and not distracted by phone, etc. So I sit comfortably with legs bent and keep 1 hand on knee or armrest, close enough to nudge the yoke when necessary. Overall, I think AP works best for longer, mundane drives where you can run in 1 lane and just let car do most of the work.
——————-

And the problem child….
——————
You don't have to hold the wheel you just need pressure so resting your hand on the bottom of the wheel works fine. Also I love that I can easily text and surf the internet on my phone and just use my left knee to apply pressure to the wheel so it doesn't nag.
———————

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/autopilot-autosteer-what-is-the-true-benefit-if-your-hands-are-semi-always-on-the-wheel.305321/

Just taking a quick look, lots of history on cruise control recalls.

4.8million Fiat Chrysler in 2018
————-
FCA is recalling approximately 4.8 million vehicles to address a defect that could prevent the cruise control system from disengaging.
——————

Consumer Advisory: Owners of Certain Fiat Chrysler Automobiles Should Stop Using Cruise Control | NHTSA

www.nhtsa.gov

All Nissan Leafs from 2018-23 (only 66k in US)

2018-2023 Nissan Leaf EV recalled for cruise-control acceleration flaw

Nissan is recalling 2018-2023 Leaf electric cars to address a potential issue that could cause vehicles to accelerate unintentionally after using cruise control.

wgntv.com

Then there was the faulty cruise disconnect switch that could cause a fire even when the vehicle was off since it had power.
Like 15 million Fords.

Ford Cruise Control Deactivation Switch Recalls and History

%

www.autosafety.org

 

[Tom K.]

I'm no Tesla fanboi, but everybody gets recalls, eventually -- or almost endlessly.

Regardless, if this could be used as a klaxon call to "End All Self-Driving Programs For All Time", I'd be all in.

 

[crgildart]

Maximum Overdrive, the sequel? Let's hope not. Thankfully Elno's not all in on AI yet..

 

[DanoT]

I mean there’s still vids on how Toyota’s hydrogen burning engine will destroy ev’s.

It's not that hydrogen hybrid's will do anything to EV sales, but hydrogen will be the fuel of the future once we run out of or ban oil because hydrogen can be extracted from water and thus is potentially very plentiful. It is no coincidence that Toyota, the hydrogen car leader is headquartered in Japan, an island nation with no oil. Also Toyota, like many other Japanese companies but unlike American companies, has a 100 year business model plan, so developing hydrogen as an oil alternative makes sense.

 

[Noodler]

I don’t really get the point of auto steer if your hands are on the wheel.

It helps for a temporarily distracted driver or a driver not anticipating a change in the roadway. My car has "auto steer", but requires that you keep your hands on the wheel. If you don't for 1 minute, the car warns you once, if you still don't get your hands on the wheel for another minute, it slows the car down.

I like be able to reach for things in the car (quickly) and other assorted things that would be a lot less safe if the car wasn't helping me out. Don't flame me! (this is a Tesla thread after all, we know most folks were using the crap out of this feature without paying attention).

 

[scott43]

It helps for a temporarily distracted driver or a driver not anticipating a change in the roadway. My car has "auto steer", but requires that you keep your hands on the wheel. If you don't for 1 minute, the car warns you once, if you still don't get your hands on the wheel for another minute, it slows the car down.

And it's likely not called Autosteer. More like lane assist. I just love the feature creep that Tesla uses, just like a software vendor. Seamless... Love it...