Stöckli Laser AX ski tune is vital!!

[Henry]

how important a tune that matches what you want out of ski is.

Exactly. I didn't like how my new AXs skied. They were OK, not scary, but not what I liked. The base structure wasn't to my liking. New base grind, 0.7° base edge angle, 3° side edge angle, and they were perfect for me. And, sharpened all the way to the tip & tail contact points. The only detuning is the shovel curve above the contact point in case the skis are in a frozen rut where I don't want the tip to catch.

I do not care what angles the factory ships out. I do care what angles I like for my skiing.

 

[Marker]

@procos Yeah, I don't know how to ski, but I'm learning, so curious what edge angles do competition mogul skiers use?

 

[procos]

@procos Yeah, I don't know how to ski, but I'm learning, so curious what edge angles do competition mogul skiers use?

30 years ago. Have no idea. LOL I'm 52 now and keep to the steeps. I don't know anything about tuning and waxing always just take them to someone. I guess you could say I am ignorant when it comes to ski tuning.

 

[Marker]

30 years ago. Have no idea. LOL I'm 52 now and keep to the steeps. I don't know anything about tuning and waxing always just take them to someone. I guess you could say I am ignorant when it comes to ski tuning.

I asked because an ex-racing coach here at Killington recommended I keep my new skis at 1/2 to ski the bumps. The rest of my skis are at 1/3, so I was looking for confirmation of any sort...

 

[procos]

I asked because an ex-racing coach here at Killington recommended I keep my new skis at 1/2 to ski the bumps. The rest of my skis are at 1/3, so I was looking for confirmation of any sort...

I would go off his recommedation. I don't want to say yes or no because I honestly don't know. There are plenty of more knowledgeable people on this forum than me when it comes to ski tuning.

 

[Andy Mink]

perfect for me

Quite possibly the most important three words in this thread.

 

[François Pugh]

I asked because an ex-racing coach here at Killington recommended I keep my new skis at 1/2 to ski the bumps. The rest of my skis are at 1/3, so I was looking for confirmation of any sort...

I find 1 base 2 side works better in moguls than 1,3 and much better than 0.5, 3 or 0.5, 2. I also found 1,1 also works in moguls if they aren't too icy (Had to go back to the original edge on my Volants when the 1,2 started eating into the cap).

 

[Ecimmortal]

Really strange about the base bevel business. Even freeride focused companies stick with a 1 degree base bevel. If anything leaving the factory with the 1.4 ensures that if someone wants to have a 1, then they need to take a significant amount of base/edge to do so.

 

[Wendy]

My Laser AX skied great out of the box, but, after checking the bases with a level, saw that they were edge high. So after a grind, I took them out and WHOA! AMAZING. They now have an even friendlier feel but still like to rip. (Well, what I consider ripping, lol).

No idea what the base and side bevels are, and it doesn’t really matter.

 

[Captain Furious]

Total mistake, why in the hell would you polish out the Ceramic disc finish. It is what makes new edges so grippy. And exactly what a Razor-Tune imparts into the edge. And the side edge has no bearing on what the OP was experiencing. He had a hanging BURR....I guarantee it! Skis can't be too sharp if the geometry is correct and there is no hanging burr! All they needed to do is run a hardstone down the base edge to remove the hanging burr!

Also the idea that all skis need to be hand tuned before skiing on them is pure BS! That is ridiculous blanket statement. Many if not most of my new skis have skied fine out of the wrapper. I always make sure there is no hanging burr and would ONLY F-up the factory tune if something is seriously out of whack.

When I buy new skis, I ALWAYS get the bases checked for flatness and the have them ground and bevels reset to where I like them... except on my NEW Stockli SR 88s. I skied them for the first time 2.5 weeks ago and on the first run in windblown powder and chalk, my ski hooked, spun me around and caused a grade 2 sprain of my left ankle. Thank God it wasn't worse. I got back out on the skis this past Tuesday. 3" of hail and freezing rain, skis didn't feel right. Switched over to my SR 95s and felt immediately better. Today, 3" of fresh snow, beautiful conditions. Skis felt pretty good on the uber soft groomers but felt really off in the moguls. To the point that I was questioning my technique. I brought them to my guy at one of only 2 shops I truly trust with tuning and had him check them out. They were F*CKING RAILED!!! I was like, "I F*CKING knew something was off!!!!" Anyway, I apologize if I offended anyone with my strong language but I'm pretty pissed about that as the shop I purchased them from (not either of my shops as they're not Stockli dealers) said they checked them out and they were flat. I trusted them and I paid the price with a serious sprain that I'm still recovering from. So no, I don't trust that the ski comes out perfect out of the wrapper for any ski manufacturer. And I set the edges the way I like them (.5/3 degree on my SX, 1/3 degree on my AX, 1/2 on my SR 88, 1/2 on my SR 95, factory tune on my SR 105).

Bill

 

[Atomicman]

When I buy new skis, I ALWAYS get the bases checked for flatness and the have them ground and bevels reset to where I like them... except on my NEW Stöckli SR 88s. I skied them for the first time 2.5 weeks ago and on the first run in windblown powder and chalk, my ski hooked, spun me around and caused a grade 2 sprain of my left ankle. Thank God it wasn't worse. I got back out on the skis this past Tuesday. 3" of hail and freezing rain, skis didn't feel right. Switched over to my SR 95s and felt immediately better. Today, 3" of fresh snow, beautiful conditions. Skis felt pretty good on the uber soft groomers but felt really off in the moguls. To the point that I was questioning my technique. I brought them to my guy at one of only 2 shops I truly trust with tuning and had him check them out. They were F*CKING RAILED!!! I was like, "I F*CKING knew something was off!!!!" Anyway, I apologize if I offended anyone with my strong language but I'm pretty pissed about that as the shop I purchased them from (not either of my shops as they're not Stöckli dealers) said they checked them out and they were flat. I trusted them and I paid the price with a serious sprain that I'm still recovering from. So no, I don't trust that the ski comes out perfect out of the wrapper for any ski manufacturer. And I set the edges the way I like them (.5/3 degree on my SX, 1/3 degree on my AX, 1/2 on my SR 88, 1/2 on my SR 95, factory tune on my SR 105).

Bill

To each his own. There are always anecdotes....but that is all they are. That doesn't mean every new ski is problematic. You certainly could have checked the bases with a true bar yourself...it's not rocket science!

My guess is you simply had a hanging burr. I have not had a shop tune my skis for 2 decades. I let them grind them flat...but that is it. In fact what prompted me to learn to tune besides my kids racing at a high level, was shitty shop tunes...mostly it turns out the shop morons never knock the hanging burr off of the ski. As I said, the skis only need to be flat 10MM in from each edge o ski fine, but if you have a hanging burr...your screwed. It pretty makes the skis, unskiable. Railed means they are concave from edge to edge. Generally that is not the case. Most times they may be base low in the center of the ski in the tip and tail. But that really has no effect. A hanging burr will make your life miserable. The ski won't roll on edge smoothly and once on edge they won't want to roll back off. And the harder the snow or icy or weirder the conditions or man-made....the worse it is!

 

[cosmoliu]

Could I get a precise description of what a hanging burr is?

 

[KingGrump]

Could I get a precise description of what a hanging burr is?

Hanging Burr - SlideWright Ski & Snowboard Tools, Wares & Tips

(FAQ) After performing base grinds, machined edge sharpening or hand side edge sharpening with a file, a hanging burr can be formed which may feel like a razor sharp corner. This can create hooking of the edge and unexpected edge action. Removing the burr is necessary and and easy final edge...

www.slidewright.com

 

[cosmoliu]

So, does it protrude from the base aspect of the metal edge? Or does it protrude from the sidewall aspect of the metal edge? Not entirely clear from the illustration.

 

[KingGrump]

At the intersection of the base and side edge. The burr points down.

The red line in the diagram.

 

[Jwrags]

Can there be a burr to the side instead of protruding towards the base?

 

[KingGrump]

Can there be a burr to the side instead of protruding towards the base?

Depends on you sequence of operation. If you bevel the base edge after the side edge then the burr will point side ways.
The usual practice is base edge before side edge if the skis has just been flat grinded.
On a standard tune without a new base grind. Only the side edges get sharpened. So the burr usually hangs down.

 

[Jwrags]

I presume the “side” burr would inhibit the bite in the snow from the edges.

 

[Atomicman]

Can there be a burr to the side instead of protruding towards the base?

The burr off the side isn't a problem because it breaks off as soon as you put the ski on edge. The hangin burr going down into the snow is problematic and doesn't break off. It just makes your skis ski wacky!

 

[Atomicman]

I presume the “side” burr would inhibit the bite in the snow from the edges.

Nope. Almost no effect. but normally you sharpen your base edge 1st ( if at all) and then do the side edge. Working on the side edge is what causes the hanging burr sticking into the snow. It is microscopic , nothing you can really see with the naked eye. BUt you can feel it. it is easily removed as the 2nd to the last step in tuning your skis.