International (Europe/Japan/Southern Hemisphere) Skiing near Milan?

[Nola Mike]

Just an quick update and some thoughts:
We ended up in Bormio, as mentioned. Rented a car, and had no problems with the travel from Milan (3 hours). I'm glad I chose as I did; arriving late afternoon on Sunday was great in order to settle in. We stayed in an awesome 2 BR airbnb that was a 15 minute walk to the slopes. The rental shop we used was right next to the gondola and had storage for the equipment, so that made things easy. Town of Bormio was very cool, lots there. It was the right size, it could have been smaller and I'd have been fine. We had great food, from pasta to pizza to fancy. The food on the mountain was surprisingly decent and reasonable; certainly much more so than at a US resort. We didn't have to wait in really any lines to speak of.

--It hadn't snowed there in a few weeks, and it showed. Lower half of the mountain wasn't great, but actually had a sweet spot in the day where it was soft but not slushy (yet). Grooming was good, but tended to get skiied off by the end of the day. Conditions would be equivalent to good east coast skiing.
--The mountain itself was fun, but not very big (the groomed parts at least) and not particularly steep. Huge drop though, so there was enough to ski there for 3-4 days.
--Great weather. 50's at the base, mid-20's at the peak, mid-30's+ at 2k meters. Bluebird for the first 4 days.
--Got absolutely dumped on our last day. Peak was closed, but we had at least 18" at mid mountain. Would have LOVED to stay for a few more days.
--The Italians seem allergic to powder and do everything they can to avoid it. We couldn't resist taking a few runs under the lift and just off the side. I couldn't tell actually what was "off-piste" vs just ungroomed in quite a few places
--We did one day in Santa Catarina. Loved it there. Quite a bit steeper than Bormio, and the town seemed cool as well. Easy drive down there, and nice to mix it up. I don't know if anything was running on that last day though, since it starts at 2k meters. We could have done another day there for sure.
--The "thermal springs" were a bit of a disappointment. More of a huge rec center. The disappointment was that there wasn't actually a hot tub anywhere, the pools were all just warm. Still enjoyed it though, and the saunas were great. Way too many obnoxious kids though.
--We were the only Americans that we encountered during our whole trip. Quite a few Brits. People were excited that we were American and not British. That was interesting. My son was intent on learning some Italian, so he ordered all his own food. The Italians were for the most part super patient and amused by him. (He got good at "Vorrei una cioccolata con panna, per favore")
--American bread sucks. American pizza sucks. American pasta sucks.

Most important: My wife had a great time. I billed it as "a vacation in the Alps! (where we'll do a little skiing)". She hit the shops, read, walked along the river during the day, and then joined us in the afternoon/evenings. Nice weather helped.

 

[James]

The Italians seem allergic to powder and do everything they can to avoid it.

 

[dbostedo]

I couldn't tell actually what was "off-piste" vs just ungroomed in quite a few places

"piste" is a groomer. So anything else is "off-piste".

Whether or not it's within the resort or not (what we'd call "out of bounds" in NA) is another question. My understanding from reading (no direct experience) is that save for a few marked, ungroomed runs/areas, anywhere you go off-piste is likely to also be outside the resort/ski area - even under a lift.

 

[James]

There’s no need for all these words. It’s either piste or not. Pistes can have moguls. Pistes are marked with poles above tree line. At least in France and Switzerland.

Now… there’s a third type in Switzerland (at least in 4 Vallées ) called Itinéraire à Ski or I’ve seen it called Route Itinéraire. Itinerary route.
It’s marked off piste. By marked, it’s one line of orange poles. The actual skiing can stray quite a ways from these poles but if you follow the poles you’ll get to the end. I think the longest and widest mogul field I’ve ever seen was on one of these routes in a low snow period.

Now, the map says “marked, not maintained, not controlled, intended for experienced users.”

They will however close the entrances. I’ve also seen on one, Chassoure-Tortin, they occasionally winch cat the path where the poles are set. (There’s even a youtube video on that) This year that actually made it worse the day after. It ended up a very steep white ice sheet at the beginning. One of our party attempted to go around that, fell and speared a ski into the chalk, then rocketed down the ice sheet with one ski on head first. They were lucky to get stopped by the first mogul.

Two people were killed by avalanche in March on the Gentianes-Tortin itinerary route last year. Several years ago 4 killed near the Vallon d’Arbi route. Though they were some ways off it, I skied several times across the middle of that where that avy path went.

I don’t know how this fits into rescue and cost/insurance. At least get travel insurance that covers off piste when going to Europe.

Itinéraire à ski marked in yellow.

 

[dbostedo]

Pistes can have moguls.

Ah... I've seen definitions of "piste" that just say "groomed runs". But looking now I do see some sites referring to "mogul pistes". Interesting. So piste can just mean "marked run".

 

[Cheizz]

Ah... I've seen definitions of "piste" that just say "groomed runs". But looking now I do see some sites referring to "mogul pistes". Interesting. So piste can just mean "marked run".

Yes. That is the definition I would use in Europe. If a run is marked (in real life, not just drawn on a map) and open, you're NOT skiing off-piste. Anything outside the marked runs (or on closed ones) is off-piste. At least insurance-wise.

There are some runs that are marked and cared for ('secured and checked by ski patrol), but never groomed. But there is no standardized naming or coding system.