Ski tune question

[Bluenose]

Tried my son’s Brahma 82s and found that suddenly I was able to maintain consistent speed.

My daily drivers are Liberty V76 and while I really like the skis and they seem well matched to my skill and preferences, one thing I have trouble with is maintaining speed, at medium speed that is. On the Brahma 82s I had no issue with that whatsoever, or much else for that matter, except that the even slightly wider skis do affect my knees.

What I wonder about is would changing the side-edge bevel from 2 to 3 degrees help in this regard?

 

[1Turn2Many]

Nope. Wax might help or less skidding.

 

[scott43]

Are they the same length?

 

[James]

Did you ever get those Liberty's reground and edges set? Liberty was notorious on those skis for terrible finishes. Some were frankly near unskiable.

 

[Bluenose]

Thanks, good points.
179 for the V76 and 173 for the the Brahma and both are R 15 so not a big factor.
They were base high and just awful so I did have them reground. I figured that since I had bought them from STP they were perhaps seconds.

 

[François Pugh]

Tried my son’s Brahma 82s and found that suddenly I was able to maintain consistent speed.

My daily drivers are Liberty V76 and while I really like the skis and they seem well matched to my skill and preferences, one thing I have trouble with is maintaining speed, at medium speed that is. On the Brahma 82s I had no issue with that whatsoever, or much else for that matter, except that the even slightly wider skis do affect my knees.

What I wonder about is would changing the side-edge bevel from 2 to 3 degrees help in this regard?

I don't understand the question. Do you mean you could not get the ski to ski fast enough and that no matter what you did you were too slow compared to the "medium" speed you wanted to go? Do you mean that the skis would end up going faster than the "medium" speed you wanted to go and it was too much work to make them slow down? Do you mean that you were not comfortable skiing at "medium" speeds because you did not feel in control at those speeds?

 

[Yo Momma]

This is a "no brainer" the Brahma ski is a beast. It's built for speed and stability. Lots of ex racers love the Brahma. Chuck the Liberty's (Toys) and go get yourself a set of Brahma's (Tools).

 

[cantunamunch]

except that the even slightly wider skis do affect my knees.

This...is not a good thing to have at 82mm waist. It's about 15-20mm lower than I would have expected to hear.

This does circle back to your question, in that stiffer skis might hurt more, irrespective of waist width, especially if your knees are banged up, arthritic, or if there is an unresolved alignment issue.

 

[James]

Need some stats such height/weight and ski lengths.

 

[Max Capacity]

I'll agree with, chuck, the Liberty's.

The main difference between 2 and 3 side is the 3 gives better edge hold. All my skis for many years are 3 side bevel.

I've been doing my own tuning and waxing for over 20 years. My current skis, 2017/18 Volkl Kendos, have never been to a shop since I bought them. They glide better than any of my buddies skis, tuned by a shop. I do use Dominator Hyperzoom wax. Which they no longer sell.

I'll also agree that wide skis are tough on the knees. But for me, 69y/o my 110's are not too bad, but my 119cm waist are tough after a day on them.

 

[Bluenose]

“Do you mean that the skis would end up going faster than the "medium" speed you wanted to go and it was too much work to make them slow down?”

Kind of. I do end up going faster than I intend and can’t seem to limit or regulate as well as I can at slow speed or even at high speed. It’s not too much work, I just do not seem to be able to do it.

On the Brahma 72 this was no problem. The skis just held the edge and allowed me to make regular turns and maintain a steady pace. And that holding the edge made me think about the side-edge bevel. I was not considering stiffness.



Stats: M; 63 y/o, 205# and 6”1’ tall.

V76 in 179 cm and Brahma 82 in 173 cm



I wonder about the knees too. Previously when I spent more than a half day or so on mid 90s wide skis it always resulted in sore knees. Only once have a been on 82s for a full day and that did not cause soreness, that was a few years ago. Time to get on the bike this summer and get stronger...

 

[cantunamunch]

I am coming round to a picture where you like to ride the edges - instead of doing speed scrubs by pivoting and steering at low tipping angles, say - and the Libertys simply aren't stiff enough for you to do that.


It might be a wrong picture, and the knee thing is a worry, but a civilian pseudo -SL ski might be well to your liking.

 

[Marker]

I am coming round to a picture where you like to ride the edges - instead of doing speed scrubs by pivoting and steering at low tipping angles, say - and the Libertys simply aren't stiff enough for you to do that.


It might be a wrong picture, and the knee thing is a worry, but a civilian pseudo -SL ski might be well to your liking.

Not sure I would have come to the same explanation on my own, but it sounds right to me. I also have the Brahma 82 at 1/3 and can control my speed by staying on edge. But I also can on some M-Pro 90 at 1/2, so I don't think it's edge angles. These are surprisingly stiff skis, at least underfoot and in the tails.

I'm bigger than you OP at 6'6", 225 lb, so prefer stiffer skis and can quickly pick up more speed than I'm often comfortable with on steep slopes. I bought the Brahma 82 at 180 cm for something nimble and easy on the knees with a shorter turn radius (16 m) than most of my other skis (~20 m, 180+ cm). To me, the Brahma 82 are one of those few unicorn skis! But what about turn radius?

 

[Mendieta]

@Bluenose, I think there are a few things here:

1. In terms of ski tune (your real question), if your skiing style is mostly carving clean turns, on groomers, 3 degrees on the side will help you control your speed a little better. But I doubt this will make a huge difference.
2. You found that a different ski design (and *length*) works better for speed control. My hunch is that this is the main factor here.
3. Knee pain with skis wider than mid 70's (for all you know).

For the first item, I would suggest that you look into getting a ski tuning setup. Not very expensive and super worthwhile. Switching between 2 and 3 is easy and you can use a marker on the edges to verify you do it well. My hunch is that

For the other two, a simple approach would be to suck it up, and use narrower skis. The main difference between the two skis you mentioned is full laminates of metal in the Brahma, and a shorter ski in the Brahma. I would consider @cantunamunch 's suggestion of a civilian "race style" ski, like perhaps one of the Head Supershapes, which ski long, so you can get at a shorter length, have lots of metal for terrain absorption which makes for a smoother ride, and allow to control speed by turn shape very precisely.

All of this assuming that you ski on groomers. But in general, opening a thread for new skis might be best. Please give as much info as possible (how and where you like to ski, your specs, etc). The more you give, the more you get.

Finally, a ski lesson prior to that to have a second opinion on your technique could help you with item 3. Generally speaking, at your size, 82mm seems too narrow to produce pain when edging.

Best luck!

 

[Tom K.]

What I wonder about is would changing the side-edge bevel from 2 to 3 degrees help in this regard?

Nope, not at all. Keep in mind that, generally, a longer ski glides better than a shorter one.

 

[wolcoma]

If you live in the East and not holding on the harder snow, then yes a 3 degree side edge bevel will help. However, the skis may also need to be stone ground so you have a consistent base bevel too.

On the second question, if your knees are hurting you might want to have your boot alignment checked by a good boot fitter. Years ago I was experiencing knee pain and then my boot fitter canted my boots (alignment) to help my knees be more parallel and it's made a huge difference for me and much easier hold an edge while skiing. Granted canting is not for everyone, but having a good boot fitter evaluate your stance either with foot-beds, cuff adjustment, or even cants can make a big difference.

 

[Jeronimo]

I've definitely noticed among my own quiver that some skis for some magical reason just do not hold an edge like other skis with similar sizing parameters. Example: My rossignol exp 84's are sharp as razors with a 1/3 and I wouldn't trust them to hold on a spring day on the bunny slope. It's so irritating.

 

[James]

^ go to Soothski and check the torsional stiffness.
I can say in that category the Fischer Rc One 86GT is a beast. Amazing edge hold.

 

[Bluenose]

Your insights are very helpful and much appreciated!

I am going to change the V76s to 3/1 and make sure they are in all-round good shape. I’ll also demo SL type skis (that won’t wear me out by lunchtime). I tried some a few years ago and will have a better idea now as to what to look for in them.

Let’s see if that does anything for the knees and I will keep a boot fitter visit in mind regardless.

 

[Tricia]

With my experience with LIberty skis, you may want to take them to a shop and get a full grind and tune on them.
They have had some inconsistency out of the box and tend to ski much better after a full grind and tune.